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In the book, they do not know if the dead dragon was the Lord Octesian. Reep asks, “Villain have you devoured a Narnian Lord?” Then Lucy suggests it might be the Lord Octesain. Edmund says, “It needn’t be either. All dragons collect gold. But I think it is a safe guess that Octesain got no further than this island.” The book also does mention that arrows are useless against dragons.
If I remember correctly, the book never tells us for sure what happen to the Lord Octesain. The way I see it there are four possibilities:
1. The dragon killed and ate the Lord Octesain.
2. The dragon was the Lord Octesain.
3. The Lord Octesain lost his bracelet on the island.
4. The Lord Octesain died from some other cause and the dragon took his bracelet and probably ate him.
If number 3 is true, we are left with the question “what did happen to the Lord Octesain?” He didn’t show up on any of the other islands and from the way the characters act certain he perished there I assume that it what Lewis intended. I think if they were in error Lewis would have made that clear. If number 2 is true, then we are left with the problem as to how the bracelet ended up in the cave. If he was wearing the bracelet when he turned into a dragon, why didn’t it either disappear like the stuff Eustace put in his pocket did or get stuck on his arm? I’m assuming that in order to turn into a dragon one has to “sleep on a dragon’s hoard with greedy, dragonish thoughts in his heart.” Of course there may be other ways to become a dragon but for now I’m going to assume that it is likely that that way is the way it works on Dragon Island. I suppose he could have taken his bracelet off before he fell asleep and that would explain the bracelet. Number one seems more probable than number four because it seems likely that the other lords would have buried him and his bracelet before they left the island. Of course, the dragon could have dug him up or the lords could have panicked and fled because they saw the dragon before they had a chance to bury him. I think options one and two are make more sense than options 3 and 4, but I can’t decide which one I think is right. Feel free to share opinions.

I guess what I am saying is that if the dead dragon is not Octesain then it wouldn’t be so bad if it became the dead dragon because of something the voyagers did. It would have to be made clear that it was not Octesain though. I think Gymfan’s explanation makes sense, but of course there are other possibilities. If Eustace is the dragon, then he is clearly not on the ship. If he is not on the ship, they have to go back to land to look for him. It was made perfectly clear in the book that they would not leave the island until they had discovered what had become of Eustace. I suppose we will have to wait and see.

I'm gonna go with Gymfan's explanation on this.

sweeetlilgurlie wrote:The bit I'm confused about is how they have a mast. It should be gone if they were in a storm on the way to Dragon Island. If they haven't met Eustace as a dragon and learned it was him, they shouldn't have found a mast yet.

I believe this change can be explained without having to mess up the plot *that* much. Perhaps whilst the crew is repairing the ship, Eustace goes off by himself. He's missing for quite a long time, of course, and meanwhile the crew has repaired the ship and found a mast. They are all set to sail off the island--when a dragon flies over! And of course, they're concerned when he starts to settle on the mast because they've just fixed it!

So, they have to stay on the island until Eustace can be un-dragoned because they can't possibly take him onboard, as Lucy points out. Anyway, just my two-cent hypothesis.

~~

At any rate, we know that there has been a deviation from the book here. As I have mentioned before, I am inclined to think that the smallest in that shot is not Eustace. Eustace (if this is before he became Dragoned) would not be carrying a sword, the smallest is indeed carrying a sword, also based on the previous pictures we have seen with Lucy and Eustace's actors standing together, the short one is too short. We do know that there are dwarves on the Dawn Treader, they just put a pic up today with one in it. However, I see a rapier, not a dwarfen sword. I am inclined to think it is Reep.

I don't like the fact that they are on the ship if the Dragon is Eustace, as someone else said, this is completely contary to the characters of Caspian et. al. They would never leave one of their shipmates, no matter how annoying he was, on an Island. Lewis even says as much.

Movie Aristotle wrote:I think the middle part goes like this:

Crew Member 1: Kill it! He'll break the mast! (?)*
**Crew Member 2: Aye Aye!**

Thanks! Very good hearing to pick that out! Took me a a few listens to find the lines from amongst the background chatter, but once i did, i can definitely hear it.

Gymfan15 wrote:Yep, I'm not buying the Lord Octesian angle...from a very practical aspect, it would just detract from the Eustace storyline and confuse the crud out of people.

I would definitely agree with you there on the whole practical aspect angle. I can't see that the filmmakers would invest in a big dragon set-piece for Lord Octesian, a character with which the audience has no emotional conncection to, at the expense of doing one with Eustace as a Dragon ( and two big Dragon set-pieces would just be a bore)

I also don't believe either that they would waste their big "reveal" on the Dragon CGI on Lord Octesian, which would significantly lessen the impact of seeing Eustace as a Dragon for the first time.

Thirdly, having Eustace and the crew confronted by a Dragon before they reach the island would significantly impact upon the plot - Why would they go ashore if they knew there was a dragon there? Why would Eustace wander off if he knew there was a Dragon there? Why would Eustace go into the Dragon's cave if he's already seen the Dragon and what it can do? The only reason Eustace goes in there in the book is that it says he hasn't read the right books, and doesn't know about Dragons and such. Clearly he would if he had just been in a big action-scene with one.


So, as for the question about whether the whole thing is a good idea or not, i am going to say (for the moment) yes (assuming its Eustace). For one, I would much rather they have action set-pieces like this, which have a strong basis in the book, both in terms of plot and character, rather than add in action scenes which have a flimsy basis in the book (a battle with the sea people) or absolutely no basis in the book whatsoever (LOTGK etc).

And secondly, i think having Eustace being falsely attacked by his own crew memebers could really strike an emotional chord, allowing the audience to really sympathise with Eustace for the first time - which i think could enhance his character arc, building upon what is already in the book.

icarus wrote:

Gymfan15 wrote:Yep, I'm not buying the Lord Octesian angle...from a very practical aspect, it would just detract from the Eustace storyline and confuse the crud out of people.

I would definitely agree with you there on the whole practical aspect angle. I can't see that the filmmakers would invest in a big dragon set-piece for Lord Octesian, a character with which the audience has no emotional connection to...
I also don't believe either that they would waste their big "reveal" on the Dragon CGI on Lord Octesian, which would significantly lessen the impact of seeing Eustace as a Dragon for the first time.

Thirdly, having Eustace and the crew confronted by a Dragon before they reach the island would significantly impact upon the plot....

All valid points which make me even more certain that it's Eustace the dragon in that video.

Lava wrote:I don't like the fact that they are on the ship if the Dragon is Eustace, as someone else said, this is completely contrary to the characters of Caspian et. al. They would never leave one of their shipmates, no matter how annoying he was, on an Island. Lewis even says as much.

That fact that they are on the ship doesn't necessarily mean that they are planning on leaving Eustace. We don't yet know if the dragon indeed is Eustace, though I do believe it is for the reasons I quote above. Assuming it is Eustace we have to wonder why they were on the ship during their first encounter with him. (I am certain that it hasn't been changed entirely from the book). They could be looking for something, or they probably hadn't notice Eustace's absence after all it does take them some time in the book too.

I'm thinking it must be Dragon Eustace. The other dragon, Octesian or the dragon that ate him, is just too far gone to be flying around. And as icarus pointed out, it wouldn't make sense to show that much of a dragon other than Eustace.

Here is a scenario that just occured to me:

It could be that the crew, after searching for him, somehow thinks Eustace has been eaten by the other dragon. (Which means Eustace eats it (yuk) later on perhaps.) Some of the searchers mention finding it in the book upon returning to camp.

And it is also possible that the Dawn Treader is still anchored in the bay and just preparing to leave as Dragon Eustace swoops upon them; leaving the possibility of the beach scene open.

But how do they find out that the dragon is Eustace? That will be most interesing. Maybe someone else will think of way. I'm not up to that at the moment. NarniaWebbers are bright, right?

I think i like the Idea that they were working on the ship better.

It could be that they aren't actually leaving, they're just anchored in the bay and (if I'm remembering correctly) probably loading fresh water and supplies on board. Either that, or maybe they have already looked for Eustace and are going to try and sail around to the other side of the island, since they aren't having any luck on the side they're on. That might be a little far fetched, but I think it's safe to assume that they'd just take off without Eustace.

Pattertwigs Pal wrote:The way I see it there are four possibilities:
1. The dragon killed and ate the Lord Octesain.
2. The dragon was the Lord Octesain.
3. The Lord Octesain lost his bracelet on the island.
4. The Lord Octesain died from some other cause and the dragon took his bracelet and probably ate him.
I think options one and two are make more sense than options 3 and 4, but I can’t decide which one I think is right. Feel free to share opinions.

I always leaned towards #2, since in the scene that Eustace sees the old dragon go to get a drink (and then die), Lewis evokes such pity and remorse from the reader for the old dragon. I don't think he'd make the reader feel this if it was the dragon that ate Octesian. It seems to make more sense that we are feeling sorry for the dragon because he IS Octesian, and has been trapped in the dragon body for so many years and has had to live all by himself.

I was starting to get dizzy when I watched the video. lol The scene sounds intense...like the Kraken in PoTC 2...just joking.

Lava wrote:I think i like the Idea that they were working on the ship better.

Actually, that strikes me as better also. Just have the crew mending and preparing things while the Dawn Treader is still anchored in the bay. Then have Dragon Eustace make a more spectacular appearance than in the book. And how he becomes a dragon could still happen as C.S. Lewis wrote it.

That way the following scenes could be pretty close to the book also; like talking with Dragon Eustace up close on the beach. We'll know in time.

freddie's improvs like this is what makes him so amazing. his voice is already the best ever, but he is also a great performer and entertainer

Another thing that could be doing is trying to figure out what they need.

Very cool, I'm glad we finally have some footage.

hmm its hard to make out in the video, but it looked like they were almost trying to rock the boat at one point....

I don't know, I hope that its Eustace after hes been 'dragonfied" , otherwise I wouldn't feel as sympathetic for the old dragon if he was really trying to attack the boat. Which is what 'Jack' did in a way. Really excited about the movie 2010 seems so long away.