Books: Chapter One!

[Warrior 4 Jesus]

Yes, at times Agatha Christie's works can be predictable but I don't think The Murder of Roger Ackroyd was one of them. Also, you have to realise this was one of her first novels, so at that point it wouldn't have been predictable at all.
Try The Big Four. It's great but very different to many of her other novels.

[Silvertongue]

I've actually heard that The Murder of Roger Ackroyd was one of Agatha Christie's "shockers" to it's readers. Quite honestly though, I found it really easy to solve, and guessed the murderer practically half-way through the book. I have a feeling that it's because I've read so many of her books, and she does have a kind of pattern set in her books...but I still enjoy them! The Miss Marple books are my favorite!

[DiGoRyKiRkE]

When it comes to Agatha Christie, I'm partial to Hercule Poirot. Miss Marple usually has some good plotlines, but it seems like they never discover any evidence. Miss Marple just goes around and talks to people and riddles things out like that. Poirot actually finds evidence every now and again.

Either way, I'm not a big fan of Agatha Christie. Her bad guys usually have really miserable motives for committing murder (the exception being some of my favourite Poirot books), and as was pointed out earlier, they're usually quite predictable.

When it comes to a good mystery, I really enjoy the Emily Brightwell Mrs. Jeffries series. They're really fast paced reads, and you can usually knock one out in a day or two. My only critique of these books is that Mrs. Jeffries, who is a housekeeper for an inspector, but Mrs. Jeffries is usually much more clever than the inspector. There are times when he cannot solve a case at all unless she points him in the right direction. The man wouldn't have made it all the way up to an inspector if he couldn't solve a simple murder. But her characters have very charming relationships with each other, and some of her characters are quite eccentric (which is always a plus ). Her motives for murder and the murderer themself is never known until the very end of the book, and her evidence almost always points you towards one character, slowly wrapping you up in the web of the story. It isn't until the end that you realise that you've been caught, and the murderer is really somebody that you never would have expected.

So if you want a good Victorian England mystery series, go with the Mrs. Jeffries series by Emily Brightwell. There are about 30 books in the series thus far.

[mar_girl]

Hi everyone! I'm excited to be here! It's going to take me a while to adjust, though...

From lys (how do you quote specific people? I can't seem to do it):

So I suppose someone already posted that ultra-condensed version of Twilight? Great. It was probably mara, as likely as not. That girl ... always stealing my thunder.

*cackles evilly* No, it wasn't. I learned about that site through you. Or was it someone else? Booky?

I wasn't going to respond to all the old forum stuff here, but since lys did, I will too.
Old Forum:
lys:

I forgot to mention that I really, really liked your LT review of that Aesop book, which you modestly chose not to post here. It was short, sweet, and utterly charming. Props.

Oh, gosh. I didn't post about it since I haven't been on NW for a bit, and I thought it was merely ok, not really worth sharing. But thank you! That made my day.

I can't remember if I told you I love your MP review, ww. I may have upthumbed it twice

W4J: Wow, that is some book! It looks fascinating. Are there other copies about the other parts of Miyazaki's life? Like, birth-1978, etc.

ww:

I think it's because [Tolkien] got the beauty too; you can tell it moved him and that is why he is able to do the same to us.

YES. This is why I love reading. I love it so much when I'm reading somebody and he or she knows.

The Archbishop story in the beginning of Les Mis is my favorite part.

I'm glad you liked the Dr. Who cakes, MereChristian!

Shadowlander:

I think Dickens tends to get the same way in some of his books, especially A Tale of Two Cities, where it feels like he spends the first few pages describing weather and road conditions in the countryside, which makes me wonder if the guy was getting paid by the word

I think he was. Not specifically with word count, I don't think, but he wrote his novels in weekly or monthly installments (serialization), and he was paid more for the longer ones. Plus I think that was the style back then.

I hope you enjoy the Inkheart books, Amira Tair! I read the first two, and the library has the third but I feel like I need to reread them before starting it. I looove the covers and writing style and book quotes at the beginning of the chapters.

Back to the new forum:

I love your sig, Narnia Girl! *sighs*

Mr Anderson: You rock. That is amazing.

narnian1:

That's easily one of my favorite chapters in the trilogy for that very reason

*flies to protect narnian1 from ww's wrath* He didn't mean it, really! It was just a slip of key! He won't do it again, don't worry!

The Scouring of the Shire chapters are my favorite in ROTK, I think. Agree about the hobbits' new amazingness.

I love your sig, DiGoRy KiRkE!

Arwenel:

I read the first three (Eternity Code is number four, right?)

Eternity Code is the third. The list goes like this:
Artemis Fowl
AF: The Arctic Incident
AF: The Eternity Code
AF: The Opal Deception
AF: The Lost Colony
AF: The Time Paradox
My favorite is The Lost Colony because of No.1. Next is Opal Deception because it makes me giggle a lot for some reason, then The Eternity Code (my little brother's favorite). My least favorite is the newest.
Artemis x Holly = NO. Cut it out, Colfur. That is just wrong. There are also a bunch of graphic novels (well, they're graphic novelizing them slowly; I think currently there are the first two).

The Merlin Conspiracy

I read that one. It was in the earlier days when I didn't know much about authors. It was very good, as are all DWJ books, but there was something I just did not like about it. It was a specific thing:
When we found out that that one wimpy kid had put a spell on the girl (I've forgotten the character names) so that she would always favor him and do things for him. I just found that really horrible and it influenced the way I saw the book. I'm not sure why. I'd have to read it again, now that I've read more of her work. For some reason, her stuff set in modern-day England leaves me feeling a little bit cold. Like, her House books, which feel like late 19th-early 20th century era to me, leave me with warm fuzzies, and the modern-day ones don't. Maybe because it strikes closer to home or something. Like, in Dogsbody, the animal and emotional abuse was hard for me to stomach. It wasn't all A Child Called It or anything, but it was hard for me to read.

And now for what I've been up to lately... I've read Miss Pickford and Mr. Hare, my book about Aesop illustrations, and Selected Poems of Langston Hughes, which I loved. MP&MR was really good, too. My LT reviews are all here. Oh! I also posted my (shortened) Nation review!
I checked Sorcery and Cecelia Or the Enchanted Chocolate Pot out from the library. I'm about a third of the way through. I really want to finish it, but I have so little time and summer is just rushing to a close. For some reason, the paperback of that was put as a Juvenile paperback. So I took it to the librarian and she made it a YA instead. What's up with the title, though? It is fun and charming, but Kate (that is her name, right?) gets no love?
Quite soon I have to start reading The Pilgrim's Progress for school.
I have several links, but they shall have to wait.

[Mar In Narnia]

What translation are you reading? I'm planning to read Anna Karenina very soon, but I have no idea what the quality translations are. Please, do let me know what you think of the book!

Oh, I'm so sorry, but I'm afraid I can't help you with the translations, I'm reading it in spanish. But I'll tell you my opinion when I finish the book, thought I don't think it will be soon

I just now realized what a superb asset my college library is. There is someone who works there who can procure pretty much any book in print for the interested student. Taking advantage of this, I instantly requested a history of Armenia and The Decline and Fall of the Sasanian Empire. He'll tell me when the orders come in; I'm quite excited.

You're interested in the history of Armenia? That's great! I'm of Armenian descent. Could you please tell me the name of the book when you get it? Thank you! Hope you enjoy the books

[Dppselej]

Dppselej, glad that KoA earned a higher place in your rankings. How did you feel about Attolia? Gen? Costis? Did you get frustrated with Gen at all? Why didn't you like TT and QoA? Is it the characters? The writing? The plot? I need a little more of your thoughts before the conversion can fully occur.

I think what bothered me most about the previous two was the whole pagan religion thing, and the language, and the general dishonesty of Gen's profession. But I need to reread them and then properly form an opinion. The characters were interesting, but the politics were somewhat confusing (if you're in a hurry and reading too fast). As for the specific characters...I could respect Costis, and understand him.

SHOW SPOILER

But I have no idea what Gen sees in Attolia. His proposal to her at the end of QoA seemed totally random.

And, yes, Gen is frustrating (though he reminds me at times of one of my own characters). He does have great lines, though, that are now a part of Things We Quote. So, this opinion isn't final yet. Bring on the conversion.

Hooray! (says the girl who actually did not like SOTB all that much) Too bad about WR, but BaN is almost as good. Both are more complex and...serious, maybe...than the first book is. Can I lay a bet that your favourite character was Blanche?

The characters in MD didn't annoy me exactly, but I didn't really sympathise with them. It made more sense after reading what RD had to say about it: you aren't supposed to like Rachel, exactly, as much as find her interesting to watch--and also, Paul's relationship with Rachel

SHOW SPOILER Because these spoilers are cool and I've been looking for an excuse to use one

mirrors how God relates to us. We rebel, run away, hurt Him again and again--yet He doesn't give up and will always take us back. There are some more parallels you see if you know she meant to do that--like how Paul was tied to the tree as he was tortured, etc.

She says it much more gracefully (it's on her forum) but you get the idea. Anyhow. I didn't really like the characters in that book either--and I was sorry that some of the other sisters were nothing more than names and shadowy figures, though I suppose you can only have so many developed characters--but I love the themes.

I agree with Lady Liln on the subject of Attolia. (And on The Scouring of the Shire, but I digress.) Glad to see you back, Dppselej!

Yes, it was Blanche. However did you guess? The allegory thing makes sense, and I knew one is not supposed to support these characters' actions. Not sympathizing with the characters and going through almost the whole book wanting to say "How can you do this?" gets a bit nerve-wracking. The moral, though, is excellent.

Dppselej - Haha, the characters in The Midnight Dancers can be very frustrating, can't they? I kept wanting to yell at Rachel. But yes, what Aly said in her spoiler. I can find the bit Regina Doman wrote about it and PM it to you, if you like. I love all the philosophy in that book. It's so very... Chestertonian.

If you wouldn't mind. I've been skimming her site, and was really, really happy when I found her discussion on the four temperaments.

[Arwenel]

I finished The Hunger Games -- wow. I didn't want to put it down last night. I was a little confused by the ending --

So where exactly is it going to go from here, since the Games are over? Still, i can't say i'm sorry Suzanne Collins didn't decide to stretch the Games out over another book or two; that would not be fun.

-- but other than that, i enjoyed it a lot. I'm planning on a re-read; unfortunately, when i first read something, i tend to skim a lot as i get caught up in the action, so i need to return and look through it in greater detail.

I started The Merlin Conspiracy -- mildly interesting, but also mildly confusing.

[ForeverFan]

Lys, ah yes, we have rather discussed this before. Hmm, a diet of reading might not be so bad! As it is, I think, since what I've been mainly reading these past few days has been youth/young adult fiction with much simpler plots, I've become accustomed to them once more and am enjoying them. (Thankfully!) I suppose the worst time is right after reading a more complex book, because it's such a large jump.

Alyosha: Yes, terribly shocking isn't it? The one I just finished reading was Not A Nickel to Spare, but I didn't really like it. It wasn't boring, but there was a few content issues here and there that I felt weren't entirely needed, and all in all the time period didn't interest me as much as the others.

Mel: Funny, now that you mention the similarities between Jacques' books, I can actually see them. Both Castaways and some Redwall have characters going on treasure hunts, quests to save things (mainly, their home)...I'm sure there's more similarities, but those are the two that I noticed first...

As I stated above, I've been continuing to read some youth fiction, mainly historical. I've enjoyed pretty much all that I've read, but it's been nothing too spectacular...

[220chrisTian]

lysander: regarding Eliot, I've read parts of Adam Bede and The Mill on the Floss. Why not all? Length and lack of time. But thanks to PBS/BBC, I'm familiar with their plots, along with Daniel Deronda. And why am I attracted to the last one? 1. Victorian era. 2. The Jewish connection! I'm a Judeo-phile, if you didn't know. My mom says I have a Hebrew mind. Lol!

Phosphorus [and others]: I read Beowulf and the Nibelungenlied in high school, more than 10 years ago. I remember preferring the 2nd half of Beowulf, too. Has anyone else read Pearl and Patience? They're medieval English poems. And they're really good! I've also read Tristan and Isolde/Iseult. What are your thoughts on it?

Arwenel: I read Harriet the Spy a few years ago, after watching the movie, and I really liked it. I even started a journal of my own. I've been keeping one ever since [thoughts and reflections on God, the Word, answers to prayer, etc]. Shakespeare: I've read all 5 plays you listed, along with nearly 15 others. My favorite is The Merchant of Venice, too.

mar_girl: you mentioned Pilgrim's Progress. I've read it twice. Are you reading just the Christian part? or also part 2 with Christian's wife and children? I've read both and I wondered what others' thoughts on them were. Which one is better written, preferred, etc? I've read Bunyan's autobiography, Grace Abounding to the Chief of Sinners. It's excellent! I want to read his allegory The Holy War. Has anyone else read that?

[wisewoman]

It is unabridged, I made double sure of that because I can't stand abridgments!

You are going to fit in perfectly here . Welcome!

You mean they [the Attolia books] get even better? *chafes at the unreachableness of the library*

Indeed they do. Buckle your seatbelt; you're in for it now . The first time I read the second two, I read the series all in one weekend, and then was sick the next weekend so I reread them. And they just get better when you reread!

Harriet the Spy: I read this one a long time ago -- i think i liked it. I'll find out soon enough, i guess.

I remember really enjoying that book too. It was very good. I wonder how it would hold up for a reread.

Bleak House: My favorite Dickens. I read it a while ago, then saw the recent mini-series and want to compare; but i want to read it again for its own sake, too.

That's my favorite Dickens too! I started the miniseries but never finished it. The dream sequences in the first hour were kind of tacky and put me off. But I keep hearing how good it is, so...

Now I have started Brideshead Revisited by Evelyn Waugh. My reasons for enjoying it thus far: 1) There's a character named Sebastian 2) He has a teddy bear named Aloysius.

I recently read that (thoughts here if you care to read them). It was fantastic on audiobook. Aloysius was very fun, but kind of poignantly sad too:

SHOW SPOILER Brideshead Revisited

Aloysius is the first hint we get of Simon's need to be needed. He always has to take care of someone else, or he won't take care of himself.

I must be slow or something. I'm not very good at guessing Christie's murderers

Welcome to the New NarniaWeb, mara!

I can't remember if I told you I love your MP review, ww. I may have upthumbed it twice

Aww, thanks so much! Is it even possible to upthumb a review twice though? You have two Hot Reviews at the moment yourself, congrats!

*pretends not to see The Lord of the Rings being referred to as a trilogy*

I think what bothered me most about the previous two was the whole pagan religion thing, and the language, and the general dishonesty of Gen's profession.

Yes, the pagan religion culture trips up more than a few new readers. I think that it is a great place to start when you are learning to make the leap between literal and figurative truths. There are parts in the Attolia books that are so theologically right-on like when Gen gets his answer in the second book — wow!, but it's not meant to be a one-to-one allegory at all. It's a great story with bits of real-life truth scattered throughout. The pagan gods don't really bother me because it's a work of fiction and Turner isn't trying to make them out to have counterparts in the real world.

As for Gen's profession, yes, it's dishonest. But I can love a character without approving of everything he does. There is something very lovable about a good-hearted rascal, somehow. Though perhaps I wouldn't love him nearly so much if he were part of my real life! He's extremely interesting to read about though. I like how Turner's stories have a darker edge to them... really bad things can happen, irreparable things, and we have a choice how we deal with them.

And don't you find Attolia (Irene) so interesting? She really fleshes out from the first book and becomes a real person. I also love Eddis, and Galen, and Costis! As for the twist at the end of the second book:

I think part of it was that Gen had observed her when she was a "forgotten princess" in her father's castle. He saw her rise to power and knew (or guessed, at least) what it had cost her. She went through a lot before becoming cold and unfeeling. It's lovely to see her changing slowly, almost against her will. She is a fascinating character.

Any more thoughts to convert Dppselej, fellow Attolians?

I finished The Mystery of the Yellow Room yesterday and wrote up my review. Now if I could just find time for The Wyvern Mystery...

[Aslanisthebest]

Well, I finished Jane Eyre… It was really one of the books that wouldn’t win my bet for a good plot. Don’t get me wrong; I loved the writing style of the book. It is, by far, one of the best books I’ve read, as far as the writing style goes. However, as far as the plot goes, I really dislike it.

SHOW SPOILER Jane Eyre

Firstly, the part where Jane recognized that Mr. Rochester did trick her after all, and that she had better leave—the scene where she went down, and he got all “Aw, you can’t kiss me because I’m married?” scene was positively annoying. I understand his reasons of disliking his wife, but that reason doesn’t justify re-marrying while his wife is still alive.
I liked the part that Jane was cousins with the people who housed her, and cared for her. That was such a sweet part.
I had mixed feelings on St. John asking Jane to marry him… From one viewpoint, it looked like he loved her, but from another that proved to be wrong. I still think, however, it was quite queer of Jane to run all the way to Mr. Rochester the minute St. John left the house.
Then, I really did not enjoy the last few chapters. I was expecting the end to be that she married St. John after all, and found out that he loved her, and they lived happily ever after. I sense Louisa May Alcott in that…
Firstly, Ms. Fairfax was right—Mr. Rochester could pass off for Jane’s father any day, and seriously… he was in his mid, or late 40’s and Jane but 19. How wrong is that? And he’s been infatuated with an opera singer, had many mistresses, and shut his wife in the attic. Why would that fiery, passionate, spirited child in the beginning of Jane Eyre ever marry some guy who would do that?
I think what set me to not liking the book was that Mr. Rochester was married, was not faithful to his wife in any way, and Jane still married him despite that, when Mrs. Rochester died. To be honest, Mr. Rochesters long, 'poetic' speeches of how he loves Jane sounded so counterfeit...in a way.
I could have found it okay if Mr. Rochester had not been married, and hadn’t had mistresses, etc. But, then, there’d be no plot to the book. So, I decided I didn’t like the book. I’d rather have Jo March marry Prof. Bhaer than Jane marry Mr. Rochester. (Either way, I’d have Jo marry Laurie, but that’s an entirely different story. )
There were parts I adored in the book, though! Those being her defending herself against her aunt, her life at Lowood, and the time she was with her cousins. The writing style of Charlotte Bronte, as I said, is wonderful. She was very talented with writing literature, as Jane Eyre proves that. The descriptions, detailed characters, and whole atmospheres that she created were lovely; it was the plot that didn’t find my favour, but I suppose I’m glad I read the book so I could see what I did like, and what I didn’t.

Dppselej, I agree with you on AOFG. It’s interesting to compare the youth then, to the youth now.
And, as for EC and RiB, I liked how RiB ended; it was just what I was hoping would happen. But, EC is a more enjoyable read.

WW, I agree with you on the Attolia spoilers and

SHOW SPOILER Attolia

Now I finally understand the way Gen got his answer in the second book, and find it very cool! Thanks for pointing that out.

Also, yes, it's really cool to see how Attolia/Irene gradually changes little by little. I love the bits when Gen breaks the ice with her, and she gets less stone-faced.

Sorry for the much skimming through the last few pages! And, sorry if there are many typos in the spoiler--I didn't look through it.

[220chrisTian]

Well, I finished Jane Eyre… It was really one of the books that wouldn’t win my bet for a good plot. Don’t get me wrong; I loved the writing style of the book. It is, by far, one of the best books I’ve read, as far as the writing style goes. However, as far as the plot goes, I really dislike it.

I loved the writing style too: atmosphere, description, etc. And my favorite part was also

SHOW SPOILER Jane Eyre

the time she spent with her cousins.

It made me think the book far superior to Wuthering Heights! But I also liked the plot!

My spoiler response to your spoiler ...

SHOW SPOILER Jane Eyre

Yes, Mr. Rochester has a crazy wife and a bunch of mistresses, but how about the fact that they come around or he mentions them to make Jane jealous? I think he liked Jane from the beginning. Did he ever consummate the marriage with the first Mrs. Rochester? Maybe not! We don't know. Yes, his attempt to marry Jane when he was still married to his first wife was wrong, which is why she left him. Jane has a conscience! Regarding the age difference, have you seen The Sound of Music? One reason I prefer Rochester to St. John Rivers is that the latter is a much colder person. He wants a wife as a helpmeet, but I don't think he knows how to love anyone. He was almost scary to me sometimes. I sensed a hard heart in St. John, something I don't want to see in a missionary! The relationship between him and Jane would never have worked because of their vast differences in outlook and temperament, and St. John's views of women. At least he's willing to educate them. Admittedly, a single female missionary was not possible in those days, but it was something Jane wanted. St. John didn't. He wanted a helper more than a wife. There was no warmth in him! Why did Jane leave St. John and return to Rochester? Because she heard him "calling" her. She wouldn't have left otherwise! You can think about that scene what you want. Also consider that Rochester, after the death of his wife and his blindness, was humbled! He was a different person and treated Jane differently at the end of the beginning. He had a conversion of sorts. My ideal man? The best of both Rochester and St. John. Oh, well.

Mods: I LOVE the new spoiler feature!!!

[Glenstorm the Great]

sorry I haven't been on in awhile. I had this whole thing where I had to reactivate my account... whatever...

so anyway, I'm still reading S&S but I'm more than halfway through it. Then I'm reading the third Horatio Hornblower book (like I said before) but instead of reading The Hobbit (which I decided I'd read before Fellowship of the Ring due to all your advice) I'm gonna read a book of Robin Hood stories that I found in the teen section of my library (right next to Harry Potter, of all places). Then I'll read The Hobbit and LOTR.

Lady Liln said...

GtG, I'm enjoying S&S. It's not the best Austen, but it's still Austen. I look forward to your thoughts when you're through with it. Oh, and The Hobbit before LotR.

wisewoman wrote...

So how are you liking Sense & Sensibility, GtG? It was my first Austen book, and will always be special to me because of that! When you're done with the book, I recommend the film adaptation starring Emma Thompson. It's fantastic.

I like S&S so far, but definitely not as much as I liked P&P and Emma. I find the story just a tad bit predictable so far. There haven't been any real suprises for me so far besides that

SHOW SPOILER

Colonel Brandon didn't really love Marianna but it was that she reminded him of his dead love. But that's not really much.

I do find Elinor remarkably like me though. I've taken several Jane Austen character quizzes and they've all said I'm like her and now taht I'm reading the book I"m finding out that that's true . I'll be sure to get that movie out ww. When I finish a book I like, I tend to watch every version of the movie I can get my hands on, . I read Oliver Twist a few months back and we're in the process of watching the 3-part series with Kiera Knightley right now. It's the best adaption I've seen so far. Closest to the book, and I'm a book purist .

ww wrote...

Oh, and I almost forgot to mention: Someone posted Tahn on BM the other day and I requested it

I noticed

it's on my wishlist too. Unfortunately I got to it a little too late.

boy I am loving bookmooch! I just requested two books I've wanted forever but were too expensive to get. Yay me

are those Dear Canada books like the Dear America ones?

[ForeverFan]

glenstorm: In regards to the Dear Canada books, yes, they are quite similar to the Dear America ones, although everyone is from a Canadian perspective, obviously.

Bella: My first reactions were, and probably still are, the same as yours in regards to Jane Eyre. Perhaps a re-read would help me see things in a better light, but my overall impression of the book was one of apathy (not hate, just, okay, that's an interesting book, but I don't see what the fuss is over it).

Perhaps it's a fault in me, but I really could not like Rochester. I'm not sure if it's his past, or what exactly, although I think the secret that he kept was part of the reason why I did not like him, even after he changed. All in all, I just simply did not really like him.

I don't exactly mind somewhat large age differences between the main characters, although I used too. (Not particularly with Jane and Rochester, I didn't really know he was 40, although that would make sense).

One question I guess my mind brings up is that, how could Jane have assurance he wouldn't treat her like he's treated his wife and the other ladies? Perhaps he was tricked into marrying his first wife, but he still could of treated her better then he did. Perhaps with Jane he's experience 'real' love, whereas with the others he didn't, or perhaps Jane was willing to look past his history, and since he wasn't married then, she felt alright doing it. I don't know- I haven't analyzed the book. Despite him actually changing at the end, it's hard for me to overlook his past and actually see him as a likable character. Perhaps in time he'll come to be one I can begin to like, but right now, I'm with you on his character and the book too, I think.

Anyways.

[wisewoman]

Methinks we need a Jane Eyre Special Feature — or perhaps a Bronte sisters SF. Would you guys be up for that?

SHOW SPOILER Jane Eyre

Admittedly it's been at least five years since I've read this, probably more than that, but I have to agree with 220 here. I think one of the main points of the story is that Rochester repents of his deeds when he is brought low by his blindness. God uses that in his life to greatly humble him. No one is trying to justify Rochester trying to marry Jane while he was still married to Bertha — of course not! But you don't have to love a character's actions to acknowledge that they make for a good story — and allow that character room to repent. If the character isn't sinning, what can he repent from?

A relative of mine had a stroke a couple months ago that left him mostly blind. It has completely changed his life... and he now has so much time to sit around and take stock of his life. The reflections aren't always happy ones, but he has to face them down. I think the same thing happened with Rochester. Like so many of us, he just went along his merry way in life doing what he wanted, and never really stopped to consider the consequences (or care about them). But when he was physically constrained, a state that forced him to deal with the time on his hands by thinking, he couldn't escape his conscience as he used to. His pride was broken and he was then able to take a true assessment of his life. He realized his sinful selfishness and repented heartily of it.

And he repents with no expectation of getting what he wanted by his repentance: namely, Jane. She is not around and he never expects her to return, so he is repenting from pure motives of true contrition for his acts. I don't think he really thought his calling her would bring her!

And like 220 said, it is highly commendable in Jane that she left Rochester after learning of his mad wife. She wanted to marry him, but she held to her convictions despite what it cost her! It's no good to say, "well, she should never have fallen in love with him then. A truly moral heroine wouldn't have." — because characters created along those lines are not real people. Jane fell in love... there is a reason it is called falling. But it's what she chose to do with that that is important.

I don't understand how you guys want Jane to be with St. John. The man was, first of all, in love with someone else! And second, he was so severe and heartless. He didn't love Jane; he just wanted to use her on the missionfield. I really find that kind of disgusting.

If you were Jane, where else would you run to escape a man like St. John? She has no one in the world to trust... except Mr. Rochester, flawed and foolish though he has been in the past. I love some flawed and foolish people myself.

ForeverFan, you ask how Jane could have assurance that Rochester wouldn't treat her as he had treated Bertha. It is all about forgiveness and restoration... which mean little unless there is a risk involved. Of course Rochester could hurt Jane in the future; so could the people in your life who have failed you in the past. If a person demonstrates true repentance, which is backed up by consistent behavior, it is our duty to forgive and work towards reconciliation and restoration. Rochester's change was far more than just a passing mood. He had been broken, in body and pride, and could never be the same man again. And that is why Jane was justified in trusting him once more.

I know, 220, I love the new spoiler feature too

Oh, sorry GTG about snagging that copy of Tahn! For some reason I thought you already had it. If I don't like it I will re-list it for you; how's that?

As for S&S, keep reading...

[lysander]

Catch-up

forgive me if I've missed something Lys, but is this the first time you will have read Beowulf?

Yes, can you believe it? It's been on my reading list for quite some time, so I was so excited when it popped up on my Medieval Literature syllabus. I love it when I'm assigned books I already wanted to read! And to whoever mentioned the Seamus Heaney (sp?) translation: we haven't been assigned that one, but if I ever go back and read the poem on my own, I will do so in that version.

I hope Leroux is able to deliver on all this hype he's building.

Oh, he is. You're liking it more than his Phantom of the Opera, I take it?

You mean they [the Attolian books] get even better?

Psst ... don't tell anyone ... but I'm in the minority by liking The Thief the best of the three. Each book is rather different from the other, and I prefer the more humorous, light-hearted air of the first.

I'm reading all of the "British" and "English" materials you mentioned for class this semester, Phos, although the continental stuff isn't included. So far I've really enjoyed some of the Celtic and Anglo-Saxon poetry ... "The Old Woman of Beare", "The Wanderer", etc.

how do you quote specific people?

(quote="username")quoted text(/quote) ... except with square brackets instead of parentheses.

Oh, and I love "The Scouring of the Shire" as well.

I suppose the worst time is right after reading a more complex book, because it's such a large jump.

Really? I find myself yearning for a simple, easy read after I've finished a complex book, and vice versa. Keeps my reading diet varied and interesting.

I'm certainly not saying you shouldn't read Daniel Deronda, and it certainly has an interesting plot line—after I read Silas Marner, I spent a long time trying to decide which Eliot I'd read next, and I ended up with DD—but I think that in some sense the miniseries is better. And Middlemarch just trumps all.

Which version of Tristan and Iseult were you speaking of? Bedier, perhaps? There are so many different tellings of that tale!

*clicks on the link to ww's Yellow Room review trembling in anticipation* Well, that wasn't as bad as it could have been. I will warn you: if you plan on reading The Perfume of the Lady in Black, watch out for spoilers! They are positively everywhere, even in some reviews of Yellow Room! Don't read anything about the book if you can help it. The back flap of my copy spoiled me and I definitely was angry about it.

SHOW SPOILER Jane Eyre

I was very much in the mad-at-Rochester camp when I first read JE. As my mother said when she finished watching the 1940s film with Orson Welles and Joan Fontaine (my favorite adaptation!), I thought that "she was an idiot to go back to him." During my original read I totally missed out on his change of heart, which Lady Eowyn pointed out to me some time later. There's one particularly beautiful passage she quoted to me; I wish I could remember it. Anyway, it's definitely time for me to reread the book.