Posted September 15, 2009 9:39 pm by Rilian
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BTW, I was not the one being a fangirl! That was all my sister! I’m the one doing most of the talking though, and the only ‘Ben’ related comment I make is pointing him out to my sister. Great podcast though. And about asking Douglaas Gresham, I seriously just asked, "Is that dragon that’s attacking the ship, is that Eustace when he’s a dragon?", and he was like, "Yes, good on you for guessing!"
Good on you Ellz! That was truly hilarious. I only wish I had mentioned your names and given you the credit that was due. Good work on the videos by the way!
Hahaha, if you think THAT one was funny, you should see the one where I first spot Douglas! I have a total freak out!
Me? Get mentioned in a podcast?!!! :3
You guys need to have Dr. Ransom on more often. It was so refreshing to have somebody being optimistic for once. 🙂
I’ll second that! Seriously guys, lighten up! Aren’t you at least happy they recognize the books are cool enough to be made into films? All this new info is really exciting, but you can really dampen a fella’s spirits! It would be nice to go at least 5 minutes without something negative- gives us Narnians a bad name. 😉
I really don’t like saying any book is "cool enough to be made into a movie." Many books are so "cool" that they could never be made into a movie. It just wouldn’t work. They’re so good, you can’t even adapt them. They’re perfect as books and can’t be done any other way.
I do agree that cool is not the right choice. Maybe that they are excited enough by the books that that they would want to adapt them is what I was trying to express. But I don’t seem to understand what you mean- if you think the books are impossible to adapt then why do you care about them being made into films? Sorry if I came down too hard on you guys- I do love listening, I just get so worried when all the problems and quibbles get pointed out. To each his own, eh?
I don’t understand why one would want to be optimistic or pessimistic about these movies. It would always be better to simply look at the evidence and come to a conclusion based on it.
The fans who were optimistic about the Caspian/Susan romance rumors ended up being, in my opinion, absolutely wrong. There was a romance, and it was an abomination.
The fans who were pessimistic about the Night Raid ended up being, in my opinion absolutely wrong. It was a great scene, and it was a necessary change for film (doing one big battle instead of doing several little ones like the book).
Being optimistic basically means deciding that the best thing will happen no matter what the evidence says. Why would you want to do that?
Being pessimistic basically means deciding that the worst thing will happen no matter what the evidence says. Why would you want to do that?
Being a realistic means looking at the evidence, and then coming to a conclusion. Why wouldn’t you want to do that?
Do you have any examples of us having an unfairly negative opinion? Peter’s sword for example. The evidence indicates that Caspian will be using Peter’s sword. In my opinion, this works against the idea of reverence, which is an important one in the book. Therefore, I don’t like this. What’s wrong with that logic? I’m not being optimistic or pessimistic. Just looking at the evidence.
Peter gave Caspian his sword. And I don’tthink that Peter would haveliked it to be hung on a wall and looked at, I think he would have wanted Caspian to use it. Just as a crown is passed down from person to person. The High King was placing his kingdom into Caspain’s hand and gave him the sword. This is just my personal opinion here. I do agree about optimistic and pessimistic thing. Keep the story of Aslan alive
i agree with lutras pearl replin to puddle glum i dont think peter would want his sword that he did everything with on a wall i think he gave it to caspian to use for god luck i suppose
I take offense to that comment. I think I’m plenty optimistic. 😉
Then perhaps you can answer my question. Why would someone want to be optimistic or pessimistic? Both seem foolish and logically flawed to me. Wouldn’t it be better to look at the evidence and then draw a conclusion, good or bad, from that?
I suppose I could be optimistic and say that someone photoshopped Rhindon into Caspian’s hand, and he actually won’t use it in the film. But I cannot deny the evidence. What would someone’s motivation be for doing that? It’s just not plausible.
A very good point glumPuddle… though im pretty sure that using that same logic would also give you reason not to believe in Christianity as well?
"Faith" by definition is belief without evidence. Perhaps some people are optimistic because they have "faith" that the movie will turn out ok in the end?
Just a thought.
I think the difference in being optimistic or pessimistic and drawing conclusions based on facts is how you present your perspective. We’re not computers, so emotion and opinion are going to come into play. You can see the glass half full or half empty, as the cliche goes. Therefore, we are inherently seen as optimistic or pessimistic based on how we deliver our opinions. As Abraham Lincoln said, "When you look for the bad in mankind, expecting to find it, you surely will." You could look for the good in the situation and say: "Oh, Caspian still has his respect for the Kings and Queens of Old and uses Peter’s sword as a reminder of their strength" or you can say that he’s being irreverent and that it was unnecessary to put the sword into VDT.
It’s not about what it IS, but rather how it comes across. I don’t believe it will come across as reverent. Reverence was something sadly lacking in the PC movie, and it really hurt the character of Caspian, as thus hurt an important theme in the story. So I guess we shouldn’t be surprised if they have the same issue in VDT. Reverence, that is.
In the above paragraph, I looked at the evidence (what they did in PC), and then came to a conclusion (what they will likley do in VDT). That’s logic. It’s not optimism or pessimism.
Just as a note to daredevil’s comment, I don’t think the Bible defines "faith" as "belief without evidence." See Romans 1:19,20. The Creation and the Bible are evidences of God’s existence. There is a lot of evidence for Jesus’ death and resurrection.
As to the podcast, I agree with GlumPuddle about the lack of reverence.
Why would they bring Lucy’s cordial and not Peter’s sword?
I expect they would probably bring Peter’s sword if he left it. But that’s not the issue. The issue is Caspian USING Peter’s sword. On;y Lucy used the cordial.
But wouldn’t they have used Lucy’s cordial if necessary even if she hadn’t shown up? Why else would they have brought it along?
They probably figured that if anyone needed magical healing it would be the king who is going on a potentially dangerous adventure facing creatures for which there is no antidote.
Let’s not shy away from the issue here: REVERENCE. I think Caspian is being irreverent by using Peter’s sword. Now, if he had to use that particular sword in order to save someone’s life, that might be different. But that’s not the case here. He could easily have brought another sword.
One thing to consider with the whole sword thing is that Caspian brought Lucy’s cordial cause he thought it could be considered ‘one of the royal treasures’ so the sword could be taken in the same context. The fact that he’s actually using the sword does cause some problems but i think while it’s not the most reverential thing for him to do he is at least finally recognizing that Peter is the High King and therefore his sword is special. Also in PC it kinda bothered me that Caspian just grabbed the first sword he saw when he was running away and that he didn’t have his own special sword despite the fact the he was the prince of Narnia. That’s not license for him to use Peter’s sword but it might explain why they’re doing it that way. It might even be that that isn’t really Peter’s sword but a more Narnian sword he had made after he became King, granted that is a little far fetched. Anyway i don’t think it should be quite as big an issue as we’re making it. This is pretty small considering all the lack of reverence in PC.
Again, my issue with it is that it was Peter’s sword, not the sword of the kings. Look at Andúril in The Lord of the Rings. Aragorn treated it with reverence, but it didn’t mean he couldn’t use it.
Just as a side note,Aragorn didn’t use the origanal sword. Narsil was compleatly reforged into Andúril.
But thewhole reverance thing was still there.
quiro que este video de edmund y eutace y el principe caspian lo quiero verlo como es y eso personajes edmund eutace y el principe caspian son el numero 1 de mi fans bye
Great podcast, boys. I do respectfully disagree with you on the issue of Peter’s sword, though. I don’t see it as irreverent at all. If Susan’s horn and Lucy’s cordial are not uniquely used by them, why should Peter’s sword be unique to him? Caspian is not only king of Narnia, he is king of Narnia with Aslan’s and Peter’s blessings. Essentially, he has been chosen as an appropriate successor to the true kings of Narnia. I think it places too much emphasis on the individual and too little emphasis on the virtues he is supposed to embody to make the sword something that only Peter can rightfully wield.
Susan’s horn was used out of desperation. Even so, there was no loss of respect for it, or the queen who first used it. No one ever used the cordial except Lucy. It was brought along on the Dawn Treader as part of the treasury, but I don’t think they would have actually used it except in it’s our last hope kind of situation.
On Peter’s sword: I imagine it would be irreverent for Caspian to use Peter’s sword, considering how old and valuable it is and how Peter was the High King and such. But by Peter giving Caspian his sword, he is essentially giving up the leadership of Narnia to a new leader. Caspian is the King now, not Peter.
Peter & Caspian had an actual friendship. It would be different if Caspian had discovered Peter’s sword in an exploration of Cair Paravel (for instance) and then decided to use it.
I agree with Rilian. I like the Anduril reference 😉
I mean, it seems to me that Peter is "saying" he trusts Caspian now. He gave Caspian his sword and went to the sideline, and if I recall correctly, Caspian stood in front of Miraz, ready to kill him with it. Doesn’t that mean Peter intends for Caspian to use it, when Caspian could have just as easily used his own sword?
I think we’re totally approaching this the wrong way. You can put the issue under a microscope and decide that it would be okay for Caspian to use Peter’s sword. I am not disputing that.
The ISSUE is… what message does this send (or not send) to the audience? I think we’re really losing something here. We’re not getting the sense of Caspian having this awe and reverence for the old days. I think the audience will get a very wrong impression. Whereas, if Rhindon was proudly displayed somewhere on the Dawn Treader, that would send the right message very powerfully.
Oh, I see what you’re saying. I think it is because of all the changes in PC that if a couple of changes were left out, other ones like this one wouldn’t matter as much. If I may reference the Caspian-Susan romance again, that was certainly a lack of respect and awe for the ancient kings and queens. And I think because the movie skipped Caspian’s young days in the castle, that’s where we lose a lot of what you’re talking about.
Peter gave Caspian his sword, Caspian said he would "look after it." I never thought that meant he would actually use it.
For one thing, 90% of the audience isn’t going to know that the sword Caspian is using is Rhindon unless they specifically point it out. And for another, I think him using it shows that he understands its history and knows what a powerful tool it can be. It may not have started out as a sword of kings or whatever, but by Peter passing it down, in this context it is. Caspian using it is a sign of his respect for both his predecessors and the history behind it.
So many spy cameras, so few tripods…
Anyway, I agree that the films have really discarded the concept of reverence. Well, it certainly isn’t a high priority, at any rate. I think it’s part of the "over-democratization" that you mention. I find it distasteful how there are so many subtle little changes to the presentation of the Narnian/Telmarine world/society to make it more "palatable" to modern audiences. Each change, by itself, isn’t a big deal. But, add them all up, and they have a very invasive, unwelcome effect.
Oh, and a podcast without Gymfan is like the Dawn Treader without her sail. 🙂
Great. I’m trying to be a good hobbit and go spoiler light. Then you blast us with spy footage. I’m not watching it. Sure,I’ll listen to you pick it apart,but no watching…
I need my laugh during dishes ;P
Im with you Lucy Took, no movie spoilers for me =) I think that its not really a matter of reverence about the sword. Well, it is but it isn’t. Mostly, its about becoming your own person. Caspian got his OWN SWORD in the book. He left behind the old and took on his own character. Its time to retire Peter’s sword and move onto a new age. Reusing it is just silly in my opinion. It’s not about if Caspian and Peter were good enough friends to use each others swords, its about taking on your own kingdom and your own responsibility.When Peter got his sword, it was a step into king hood. It was his sword. To have Caspian use it is just sort of strange, and I guess a LITTLE irreverent… I just think its time to get the boy his own sword.
I just have to agree with GP on the respect thing, it does seem like Adamson threw aside the very real respect most readers understand when they read about the High kings and queens. They were important, and they became something that was told about in stories. To have Caspian use Rhindon…I must say I am really surprised. I get the whole, "but he handed it to Caspian, so it’s ok if he uses it" thing, but I just don’t think it’s what Lewis would ever want. Just my opinion.
I can’t see the videos
me neither. And I can’t see them on youtube either. I’m missing out on everything. 🙁
I wish they can tell us what is going on.
Rilian , just wanted to say that I’ve watched your youtube videos and I’m so glad to see that there are people just like me around the world who are really dedicated to Narnia! I share most of your views and opinions and am really looking foreward to seeing more.
Thaknyou so much! 😀
I love the speculation. I just had a thought about your comments at 15:20 about the mast being not destroyed. Maybe to save money they decided to take the mast out digitally or something like that that may explain their reason for being on the island… but for the rest, difficult to say where in the story Eustace is flying to the mast though.
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