Episode 62: Out with Izzard; In with Nighy

Posted March 5, 2010 5:18 pm by Rilian

Four of the council-members go into a heated debate about whether the casting decision about Reepicheep is a good or bad thing. Rather than criticize Nighy, most of us debated (rather fiercly at times) whether Eddie Izzard’s performance did the character justice. This is one of the most heated debates we’ve had in a while, so enjoy!
Note: The poll mentioned in the podcast referred more to the overall casting decision and not Izzard. As of now, the Izzard poll says that 47% say Izzard was “Great” and 26% saying good. Only 3% say he was Bad and another 3% just above that.

66 Comments For This Story

  • Mrs Tumnus says:

    I loved Reepicheeps voice, and they just CAN’T change it… :-S
    I really wanna know why they changed it..

  • Silver the Wanderer says:

    Teenage mutant ninja mouse!!! Haha. Great podcast!

    I’m sort of torn about the change of voice. I loved Eddie Izzard’s performance, and I’m sad to see him go. But at the same time I’m very interested to see how Nighy performs and how the change of voice affect’s Reepicheep’s character in VDT. It’s hard not knowing exactly why they made this change. Hmm.

  • David Roberts says:

    The very first time I watched PC my brother and I were disappointed with the way Reepicheep was portrayed. In the end we decided that it was because he wasn’t noble enough. The main thing that I would have done differently was the way he talked to Aslan. (especially when he said the line about his "huge humility"(I think that the way Izzard did it may have added to the non-humility of it)) I all so would not have shown Reep retreating from the night attack on the castle. I would have had him being carried away again his will.
    I am sorry that Eddie isn’t going to do it for continuity’s sake, however I believe that Nighy could do a great job of it.

    • glumPuddle says:

      What are some examples from the PRINCE CASPIAN book where Reep was noble that were missing in the film?
      This goes back to by criticism of GymFan’s argument. Having problems with the PC Reep for not being the VDT Reep.

      This was an adaptation of PRINCE CASPIAN. The nobility of Reep was seen much more in the DAWN TREADER book.

      But even still, there was certainly an element of nobility in Reepicheep. When we first see him, he asks Caspian to pick up his sword because he will not fight an unarmed man. You also see it in the way he addresses the kings and queens, as well as Aslan.

      • Rilian says:

        I think he was fine in the scenes with Aslan. He made a request in both the book and film. As for humility, he wasn’t that humble in the BOOK, Prince Caspian. Besides, this was a line not originating from Eddie necessarily, and I think he wasn’t sarcastic at all when he said it. It came across as a very sincere moment.

  • Bother Eustace says:

    Great podcast guys, as usual. Got a little tense there at times! 😛
    I think I fall somewhere between the two opposing ideas here. I was very pleased with Eddie Izzard in PC; I don’t think he portrayed the character /exactly/how I would have imagined (He was a bit too ‘juvenile’ at times – I hated the whole "Shut up!" thing), but he did an excellent job all the same. I just don’t understand why they have to change the actor; even if they disliked how Izzard portrayed Reepicheep, wouldn’t it just be easier to right better lines for him and try to explain to him better what they envisioned for the character? Changing the actor seems too drastic, in my opinion.
    All the same, I know that Bill Nighy is an awesome actor, and I’m excited to see what he’ll bring to the character and movie.

  • High Queene ShellyBelly says:

    First of all, thanks to the website and podcasters! you keep us sane between movies and assure us we are not the only narnia fanatics out there! LOL second, re:reepicheep recast: as a person who had not read the books before seeing the movies (I have since read and enjoyed them) I must say i am eternally grateful to the movie producers for introducing the rest of us to narnia, as i had never read them as a kid. I am now a full blown fan and fanatic. I intentionally did not read PC before the movie as to not be disturbed by adaptation issues. I enjoyed eddie Izzard’s performance, then read the book. It is apparent the movie producers felt they needed to go for a more lighthearted, commercial direction to market this movie to the dumbed down masses of today.( I disagree) I enjoyed the movie for what is is and am gratedful to have it at all. However, now having read the book, Reepicheep was really portrayed, IMHO, inncorrectly. It was an appropriate performance in keeping with the rest of this particular movie adaptation, but my feelings were confirmed by eddie izzards commentary, it appears to me he didnt even read the book as his remarks betray his confusion about the character’s personality and motivation. Reep wasnt a crazy, foolhardy comic type as stated by Izzard, but a somewhat pompous but well meaning warrior, full of courage and valor. So while his portrayal fit into this particular lightweight teenage war movie adaptation of the book, i can see how his portrayal would not fit into this next adaptation which is supposedly making a 360 degree turn back to the deeper context of the books. (thank goodness). Perhaps he was miscast in the first place, because this crazy, sarcastic character could not successfully develop into what he needs to be for a more authentic Reep of the books and next movie. I am bothered by continuity issues, but perhaps he tried and couldnt pull it off. Im sure we’ll get the inside info soon as to how the change went down. Any one agree with me?

  • Charlotte says:

    Go Gymfan and Dr. Ransom! I agree with almost everything they said.
    About the "shut up" line, the way he said it was rotten–he could have been a little nicer even with saying the same words.
    One thing that greatly bothered me about the Reepicheep in Prince Caspian is that they made him more of a strategist. Instead of challenging the cat in the castle to a duel or something, he sneakily ties him up. In the books he would never have done that because he is all for value and courage, not cunning and strategy. Personally, I so dislike how Reepicheep is portrayed in PC that any change thrills me. I think having a new voice actor will help me separate VDT’s Reep from PC’s Reep so I’ll be able to like or dislike him based on that movie alone, without hanging on dislike from PC.

    • glumPuddle says:

      Challenging a cat to a dual? Are you serious? Where’s the nobility in that? THAT would definitly have been a very comical scene. People would have laughed.
      Of course Reep wasn’t going to challenge a dumb animal to a dual. But neither was he going to kill it. So he tied it up.

      • Rilian says:

        Bloodthirsty Reep would have killed the cat 🙂

      • Anna says:

        I have always found my reason for not liking Izzard as Reep was because I felt that his voice was to high and juvenile sounding…nothing to do with the acting but I just felt like his voice didn’t fit Reep. After hearing Nighy I am much more pleased with his voice and am looking forward to hearing it in VODT

      • Anna says:

        That was not supposed to be in the reply part. I wanted it as a seperate comment…sorry

      • Clive Staples Sibelius says:

        Well, as far as Reep’s voice in general, one has only to listen to Derek Jacobi’s reading of VDT to vastly prefer a "normal" voice for the movies. Not that Jacobi’s characterization is bad per se, but somoetimes he really strains to keep it "high and piping."

        And if you listen to Lynn Redgrave’s Reep voice in her reading of "Prince Caspian," she makes him have an affected aristocratic voice.

        Both interesting interpretations…but again, a normal-pitch voice is to be preferred in a movie.

      • Rilian says:

        If they raised the pitch on Eddie Izzard in post-production, you can probably count on them raising the pitch on Bill Nighy.

      • Pattertwigs Pal says:

        It would make sense if the cat could talk and had a sword. Of course the cat didn’t. I liked that part.

      • Anna says:

        I have listened to Izzards voice when it has not been changed and I still didn’t feal like it fit…the pitch might have affected me but I just personaly found Izzards voice to be too young.

  • Nathan says:

    It doesn’t really matter what actor does the voice of Reepicheep, as long as the script stays true to the book, and they use the same actor to play the voice in both movies. THIS they haven’t done. So they’ve already screwed it up.

  • ernesto says:

    yo quiero ver el trailer de reppechip con caspian por favor
    bye

  • glumPuddle says:

    The current poll on the NW homepage shows that 73% of NarniaWebbers liked Izzard’s performance in PC. 20% said he was okay. 7% disliked him.

    • FriendOfNarnia2 says:

      I would also vote and say that I liked him Eddie, but this doesn’t mean that I am not open to giving Nighy a try. I’m going to trust the director knew what he was doing when he had Reepicheep recast.

  • Clive Staples Sibelius says:

    Firstly, The thing about the switch for me is not that I think Izzard was so bad and that Nighy can be so much better—it’s that the characted as portrayed in PC was not himself, and therefore I don’t care about the casting change.

    Secondly, Dr. Ransom put his finger on the issue of the wrongness of the Reepicheep in PC by pointing out the general sarcastic tone of the characters, and the "Shut up!" that Reepicheep threw at the squirrel. The Reepicheep in PC was: violent, sarcastic, and rude.

    You CAN interpret him that way from the books—if you are less a fan of chivalry than some, and see chivalry as just a ballooned form of sexism and violence, etc. That is clearly NOT the way Lewis wanted to portray him. But that is the way I felt that the film-makers felt, from the way they interpreted Reep’s character.

    As it happens, I’m not a huge Reep fan. I like him as a creation for Narnia—I just disagree with his enthusiasm and willingness to, for instance, explore the dark island. Even Aslan seems to reprimand him at the end of PC by saying Reep thinks too much of his honor.

    • Clive Staples Sibelius says:

      And I should add that I agree with Gymfan, too, since she was holding up my side of the argument in the podcast. Good going Gymfan! 🙂

    • glumPuddle says:

      I really like the idea of Reep and Pattertwig interacting. I’m sure they would rub each other the wrong way. That’s why I enjoyed that scene. I guess I would have preferred Reep saying something more like "Quiet yourself" or something, but it’s not a huge deal to me.

      Seems like the people who didn’t like Reep in the movie tend to be very nit-picky. They take a few little moments and make a really big deal out of them.

      • Clive Staples Sibelius says:

        Not nit-picky so much. That would be too easy, especially in a movie that had so much that was backwards from the book.

        *shrug*

        It’s the way the filmmakers do with these books, so far. I’ll bet you Gumpus’ and Caspian’s retorts will be switched in VDT (if they keep them at all).

        I can imagine them having Caspian saying to Gumpus, "have you no idea of progress?" That of course, would be a complete 180 of what Lewis was saying in regards to progress.

        I know I’m painting myself as a hater of the movies and the efforts–but that’s not the case. I really do appreciate what they did get right, which is a lot. I’m going to enjoy VDT, and not kill myself over the changes. But, I still enjoy criticising what they don’t get right ;).

      • Pattertwigs Pal says:

        I absolutely HATED the way Reepicheep talked to Pattertwig. Of course I feel a certain loyalty to Pattertwig. 😉 There was nothing wrong with what Pattertwig said; he didn’t deserve to be treated like that.

        Aren’t NarniaWebbers supposed to be nit-picky? 😉

  • Serenia says:

    I agree with Glumpuddle and Rilian. I think the writers and Eddie Izzard did a great job presenting both his nobility and the humor he brings to the story. He is completely noble in his behavior and comments towards the Pevensies, Prince Caspian, and Aslan. There was too much sarcasm coming from many of the characters (Peter, Caspian, and Trumpkin, for example), so I would credit the writers and director with that, not the performers. I believe the change in voice will be jarring and pull me out of my "willing suspension of disbelief" when I first hear it in VODT.

  • FriendOfNarnia2 says:

    I’m going to go with the professor on this one. Reepicheep definitely acted like a teenage mouse in the film, but who knows, maybe that is what they were going for. I do think this was mostly the writers fault.

  • glumPuddle says:

    Lets take a look at Reep’s scenes:

    1. Rescuing Caspian – A comedic entrance, of course, but we certainly also see Reep’s nobility when he refuses to fight an unarmed Caspian. A great way to set up the amusing introduction of a warrior mouse.
    2. Dancing Lawn – We see him and his mice offering their lives to Caspian, "unreservedly."
    3. Meeting the Pevensies – We seem him bow to Peter and offer his "heart and sword." We see his sensitivity at being called "cute," but then his chivalry in the way he addresses Lucy. And also his pride at being from being a "knight of Narnia."
    4. Battle Plans – This is where he says "shut up," and then says he supports Peter’s plan. Only thing I’d change here is him saying something like "quiet yourself" rather than "shut up." But not a huge deal.
    5. Night Raid – He leads the way in infiltrating Miraz’ castle. I don’t see Reep ever killing a dumb beast (at least, not a helpless one), so he ties up the cat rather than kill it. Most unfortunately, at the end of the battle, we see Reep retreating. They should not have shown that.
    6. Despite knowing the odds are against them, Reepicheep puts his sword over his heart and says "for Aslan," reaffirming his loyalty to High King Peter’s next plan.
    7. He’s at the battle of course, valiantly charging.
    8. After the battle, he is embarrassed to appear before Aslan without a tail, and decides to withdraw from being a knight. Aslan suggests perhaps he thinks to much of his honor. Reep gets his tail back, and says it will serve as a reminder of his "huge humility," which ties into one of the themes in the movie.

    The Reep-haters try to take a few brief moments and act like it defined the entire character in the movie. In the end, you get what makes the character memorable in the PC book: The contradictions. A warrior mouse. A fearless recklessness mixed with chivalry and honor.

    But either way, the Reep in PC was only meant to establish the idea of Reep. He wasn’t given much depth, nor was he in the book. He will be developed more in VDT.

    Reading these comments, people are still criticizing the PC Reep for not being the VDT Reep.

    • Clive Staples Sibelius says:

      Ok, now this may rub the wrong way, but…

      When Reepicheep is fighting, he goes around slashing peoples’ throats, all the while throwing out lines like, "You people have no imagination!"

      Now, don’t get me wrong. I’m not being oversensitive to mouse-to-human violence. Reepicheep is a warrior, and he DOES kill. But the attitude the movie gave him was hardly one I would characterize as honorable.

      • glumPuddle says:

        As a CS Lewis fan, I clapped when he said that line. I think that is what it’s all about. The Telmarines have no imagination. Miraz, the villain, doesn’t approve of silly fairy tales. Lewis himself said that he enjoyed many fairy tales more as an adult than as a child.

        I think Lewis would have liked that.

        But again, that is taking one small instance and saying it defines the whole character. The Izzard-haters are selectivity focusing on the moments where Reep was the most "blood thirsty," blowing them out of proportion, and then ignoring all the other scenes.

      • Clive Staples Sibelius says:

        "You people have no imagination" may indeed sum up the Telmarines, but the context in which it is placed gives it a whole different tone.

        I’m not sure what CSL would have thought of hearing/seeing it like that. He rarely describes battles in detail, and usually from the viewpoint of an onlooker (the Hermit in HHB, for instance). The idea of "battle jibe" and mockery seems more characteristic of the nastier Narnia characters, i.e. The Telmarines during the duel in PC, and the dwarves in TLB. Not to mention the Calormenes.

        I don’t hate Izzard—in fact, he is 99% irrelevant to my opinions on the whole issue of Reepicheep as portrayed in PC. My view is that Reep was wrongly done in PC, but I wasn’t concerned if they kept Izzard for VDT. I only hoped they got him right the second time around, Izzard or no.

    • Starlily says:

      You know, glumPuddle, I was neutral before, but I’ve come to think you’re right. The movie Reepicheep reflected the book Reepicheep pretty well. The only two things I really didn’t like about him in the movie was when he said "SHUT UP" to Pattertwig (I think "Quiet yourself" would have been better too), and the other one was when he told the Telmarine soldier "you people have no imagination" and then ran him through. I know Reepicheep killed people, but I don’t like how that scene was supposed to be amusing. Killing isn’t funny.

      Anyway, other than that I liked the movie Reepicheep. But if Bill Nighy does a good job in Dawn Treader, I’m not going to complain. I just wish we didn’t have to wait so long to find out what will happen. All we can do right now is wait…

    • Pattertwigs Pal says:

      Overall a nice list of Reep’s scenes. Personally, I don’t really see that much difference between PC Reep and VDT Reep. I don’t really like the "huge humility" part. It would tie in better to the theme if the "huge" was left out or if he sounded more humble. He almost seemed to me to be prideful of his humility.

  • StevoBaggins says:

    Actually, I think heaven has Droids rather than iPhones. iPhone is an Apple product, and didn’t Adam & Eve get in trouble for eating an apple? For that matter, Digory is sorely tempted to eat an apple and Aslan commends him for not eating it. Therefore, I don’t think they’d have Apple products in heaven.

    Kidding…but you knew that. 🙂

  • StevoBaggins says:

    As for the casting change, I have a "wait and see" attitude… I’ve enjoyed Bill Nighy in the movies I’ve seen him in, so he could be good…but on the other hand, it bugs me when major characters are recast in sequels, unless they have a really good reason (such as Richard Harris’ obvious inability to continue playing Dumbledore). I think the main reason this doesn’t bug me as much as it would otherwise is that Reepicheep is computer-generated, so as long as the voice is similar, it should be OK. Of course, once I see the movie, I may change my mind there. I think Eddie Izzard did a great job in PC, and Bill Nighy could be good.

    In any case, I’m more concerned that the movie stays faithful to the book. I loved LWW, and was disappointed in the way PC deviated from the story…especially with the way they handled Peter.

    Back to recasting, I’m glad they have the same actor portraying Caspian. That’s one thing that’s bothered me in previous adaptations, both the BBC movies and the more recent audio dramas, that they recast Caspian. The two actors that play him in the BBC movies hardly looked like each other. They both did great for their parts, but I’ve been wishing for some time that someone would make an adaptation where the same actor portrayed him in PC and VDT (and at the end of SC). (Come to think of it, it might be cool if they can age Ben Barnes for SC à la Benjamin Button, and like they’re planning on doing for the epilogue of Deathly Hallows.) However, with Reepicheep being CGI, it isn’t so much of an issue whether the actors who play him look like each other.

  • Narniamiss says:

    The only thing I would change about Reep in PC was his saying, "you people have no imaginations!" while slashing a Telmarine’s throat; it seemed very crude and dishonorable. But other than that, I love his voice and character, and every bit a knight. 🙂 Glumpuddle, you keep saying people here are "Reep-haters." I don’t see that that is the case. I think they just have a difference of opinion on some things. I think we all love Reep! 😀

    • glumPuddle says:

      GymFan also said that we all have different interpretations of the character in the book. GymFan had a problem with his "blood-thirstyness" and evidently felt that he was much more "blood-thirsty in the PC movie than he is in the PC book. We don’t see much of Reep in the PC book, but lets take a look…

      At the Dancing Lawn, Reep wanted to storm Miraz’ castle that very night.

      When Reep meets Doctor Cornelius, he says, “And any Dwarf – or Giant – in the army who does not give you good language shall have my sword to reckon with."

      Trumpkin describes Reep as someone who can kill with looks.

      "If anyone present wishes to make me the subject of his wit, I am very much at his service – with my sword – whenever he has leisure." [Translation: "If you laugh at me, I will kill you."]

      The mice stabbing Telmarine feet at the battle.

      — That’s PC. For what it’s worth, here’s VDT:

      On letting the pirates go: "And we ought to have given her chase and boarded her and hanged every mother’s son of them."

      When Eustace says he wants to lodge a disposition in the British council, Reep, naturally, interprets that to be a weapon of some kind.

      When Caspian and the gang first see Pug and his slavers, it is of course Reep who reminds them, "We have our swords."

      When captured by Pug: "Coward! Poltroon! Give me my sword and free my paws if you dare."

      Lewis writes: "For his mind was full of forlorn hopes, death-or-glory charges, and last stands."

      Caspian has to forbid Reepicheep from fighting DragonEustace.

      At the end of the sea-serpent battle: "It was so unusual for the Mouse to advise anyone not to fight that, even in that terrible moment, every eye turned to him."

      When told about the invisible people, Reep’s first comment is "I wonder, do they become visible when you drive a sword into them?"

      To the invisible Dufflepuds: "And if it is anything against her Majesty’s honour or safety, you will wonder to see how many we can kill before we die."

      … All this is the reason Reepicheep throwing his sword away and saying "I shall need it no more" is one of the most powerful character moments in the entire series. The essence of VDT is the longing for one’s true home and the joy of finding it. Reep has clearly found something better than life. His heart’s true desire, better than any death-and-glory charge.

      It is beyond my comprehension how anyone could read the books and not see Reepicheep as someone who is a little "blood-thirsty" (in the sense that he craves the adventure of battle, and this makes him reckless).

      • Clive Staples Sibelius says:

        Ok,

        1. "At the Dancing Lawn, Reep wanted to storm Miraz’ castle that very night."—-the movie is in keeping with this. Fair portrayel.

        2. "When Reep meets Doctor Cornelius, he says, “And any Dwarf – or Giant – in the army who does not give you good language shall have my sword to reckon with.""—Definitely an over-the-top way of telling everyone to respect Dr. Cornelius than it is actual threat on their lives.

        2. "Trumpkin describes Reep as someone who can kill with looks."—a description of character in general. Reep is fearless.

        3. ""If anyone present wishes to make me the subject of his wit, I am very much at his service – with my sword – whenever he has leisure." [Translation: "If you laugh at me, I will kill you."]"—Translation: If you laugh at Reep, he will challenge you to a duel.

        4. "The mice stabbing Telmarine feet at the battle." —Notice the difference of tone between the book and movie here. Feet vs. Throats.

        So here’s what the movie got wrong:

        1) Eliminating any line between honor and mere violence. Reep may talk big, but his actual actions are proportional to the occasion.

        2) Made Reepicheep say "funny" things—but he wasn’t comical, and the things he said were out of character. Especially "shut up," which to me was not funny so much as annoying and obnoxious.

        Of course, Reep wasn’t the only one who suffered at the hands of the script. Many of the good-guy characters got a script-makeover. Susan, Edmund, and Lucy excepted.

        In fact, my beef with PC the movie lies not in the scene changes they made. The movie itelf flows very well. I don’t even think it’s overly fast-paced or anything. It seems very well-paced to me. The production is top-notch, and the acting is fine for what it is.

        But the dialogue was 70% terribly written. Almost everything was said in a sarcastic or bitter tone. The whole movie seemed to have an atmosphere of non-communication between the characters.

        Caspian in the how: "What, you don’t know about the prophecy? [Even though you only just got here and met me for the first time ever and you haven’t been here for over 1300 years? Huh?]."

        Ludicrous. Non-human speech. These are the people who wrote the love-scene dialogue, don’t forget.

      • Rilian says:

        Reep wasn’t comical? I thought he was great! The "Who said that?!" line made me burst out laughing, and I thought it was perfectly in line with his character.

        What about the points of chivalry? What about his courtesy to the Kings and Queens? You cannot ignore those portions. And as for "stabbing the feet", the book also says they finished them off. True, it doesn’t specify which portions of their bodies they stabbed, but you would be distorting the book to imply the mice only wounded and never killed.

      • Pattertwigs Pal says:

        I agree with CSS (sorry I can’t remember how to spell the last part and I’m tired of scrolling up and down on the page) that the translation is "You laugh at me I’ll challenge you to a duel"

      • glumPuddle says:

        CSS,

        Please explain #1. I think I know what you mean, but I’d like you to clarify.

        #2… Reep wasn’t comical? I cannot understand that one at all. His introduction is the comedic high of the entire film. And how can you possibly not laugh at “Who said that?” And the over-used “Yes, I’m a mouse” line. But what’s great about the comedic side of Reep is that it’s not like he’s cracking jokes. We can still take him seriously to an extent. In the words of Mark Johnson, "I have so much respect for the respect Reep has for himself."

        What Caspian meant was “you don’t know [this is Aslan’s How]?” Caspian didn’t realize how different the How looked 1300 years before. He just assumed the Pevensies would recognize it. The fact that they don’t recognize it is a very powerful way to show that the Narnia the Pevensies knew is gone, which is an important part of the story, thematically.

      • Clive Staples Sibelius says:

        glumPuddle,

        re: #1. Honorable would be: fighting, but not liking it. This is why the "You people have no imagination" line is so wrong in the context of Reep fighting. It makes Reep seem like he couldn’t wait to cut Telmarine throat. But from the way I’ve always read Reep, it was honor and country he was so ready to defend.

        The other thing is Reep talking big in the books, but his actions being proportional. As in the case, I think, of him telling the Narnians to respect Dr. Cornelius. I’m sure he was serious—but it wasn’t as if he was raring for a fight.

        And I think the end of VDT shows this. We find out that Reep DID talk a lot of game, but in the end there was something more important to him than honor and battle.

        #2. The movie Reep is funny, but not comical. I think Gymfan or Dr. Rnasom used the word "aristocratic". Reep has a natural flair for being theatrical, without giving any indication that he is insincere. This is why "huge humility" didn’t fit. Also it has to do with the two now-notorious lines that he spoke, which I shall not reiterate. Yes–they are two lines in a bigger movie. But two lines can make all the difference in the way someone is characterized.

      • glumPuddle says:

        The fact that the Telmarines "have no imagination" is one of the things that makes them bad guys. It would be far LESS in character for Reep to be frowning or crying as he killed the Telmarines. He certainly hungers for battle FAR more than any of the other characters. "His mind was full of forlorn hopes, death-or-glory charges, and last stands."

        Comical: "Causing laughter especially because of a startlingly or unexpectedly humorous impact." This describes Reep perfectly. At least for me and the majority of the audience I saw the movie with. His introduction is the best example, of course. And also, "Who said that?!" And the irony of the words "huge humility" (which tied Reep to one of the themes of the movie)

        If Reep isn’t comical, then I have never seen something uncomical cause so much laughter.

      • Clive Staples Sibelius says:

        glumPuddle,

        One need to go from one extreme to another. You are right—he wouldn’t be crying or praying over the dead bodies of the Telmarines he killed. And he IS fearless, something I made sure to emphasize in my points above. However, dreaming of forlorn hopes of battle charges is not quite the same as actually killing. It’s fairly obvious to me that when he dreams that (in VDT) he’s glorifying the situation to himself, and not thinking about the bloody details. My point about Reep is not that he’s a wimp and nice as a hero can be—it’s that he is NOT bloodthirsty. He’s glory-thirsty. And while in reality Reep does his utmost to be the embodiment of heroism, we all know that Caspian holds him back from fighting a dragon for good reason. He’d be fried in an instant.

        You can have the "comical" point. I never laughed once during either Narnia films, so it probably says something about me more than it does about the PC movie Reep.

      • glumPuddle says:

        I like the term "glory-thirsty," but still think you’re being incredibly nit-picky. You’re talking like they completely butchered the character.

        What did you think about his introducton, where he refuses to "fight an unarmed man"? What did you think about the way he addresses Peter when he first meets him? What did you think about his reaction to Lucy calling him cute? How about the scene in the How where they are making plans for the final battle, and Reep puts his sword over his heart and says "for Aslan"?

        Was Reep a 100% perfect replication of the character in the book? Well, if we pull out a microscope and look very very closely at every little thing, and question every tiny thing he says and does… then no. But they get the main idea. And that is all Lewis did in PC. Established the basic idea of Reep, and then developed and explained him more in VDT. I expect the filmmakers to do the same thing.

  • narnia fan 7 says:

    Eddie Izzard did a good jod in Prince Caspian and I’m sad to see he go I would have preferred Reepicheep not to say shut up to Pattertwig but it’s no big deal

    • Rilian says:

      7, how would you have suggested Izzard deliver that line if it was in the script?

      • Clive Staples Sibelius says:

        Rilian,

        The problem is not with Izzard. It’s not really about the way he said it. It’s the fact that he had to deliver the line at all. Having the "shut up!" line, as well as the "you people have no imagination" lines in the movie added a different dimension to Reep that nearly outweighed the good things.

        I know it’s not really a lot, but the lines they chose for Reepicheep are clearly not accidental. The Narnia films are hardly filled with ambience and extra scenes. Every scene and shot is purposefully chosen.

      • narnia fan 7 says:

        I don’t know it just dos’t sound like something that Reepicheep shod say and I’m no’t saying that Eddie Izzard whuis the problem I think that Nighy will dow a good job but we have to wait and see

  • Rilian says:

    Then getting rid of Izzard wouldn’t fix those problems, and getting rid of him was unnecessary.

    • Clive Staples Sibelius says:

      I would agree with that—but the main thing is that the PC Reep was so unsatisfactory that we don’t mind the change. We didn’t attach to Izzard because we didn’t attach to Reep in the movie. If Izzard continued to be Reep and was improved, we’d all be happy. It’s not the actor for me—it’s the character.

  • NarniaChick says:

    Where to start on a comment for this podcast…? Well my first thought is that I agree that Izzard was the perfect Reep for me, and I to, read the books now and hear his voice. I am not saying that I am expecting that Nighy’s performance will be bad, but I am not particularly looking forward to hearing the "new" Reep. I am a huge fan of character continuity, and I think that is the biggest problem I have with this change…

  • narnia fan 7 says:

    we jast have to waet 276 days and see Nighy’s performance

  • Eustace says:

    I personally won’t probably even notice that his voice has changed when I see Dawn Treader, but for the sake of the audience that will I wish they hadn’t changed his voice.

  • Clive Staples Sibelius says:

    I woke up today and realized that I’ve been taking myself too seriously on this subject, and offended someone in the process of trying to sound like a know-it-all. Narnia is awesome, but it’s not worth sounding like a stuck-up prig about. CSL would most definitely disapprove! I want to apologize for sounding like that. I’m sorry if I sounded like that.

    I respect and like everyone here on Narniaweb that I’ve interacted with 🙂

  • Pattertwigs Pal says:

    Overall, I though Reepicheep was well done (although for some reason the more people argue that he was well done and in keeping with the book the more I want to take the other view). There are a few parts that bug me. I get mad every time I hear Reepicheep’s response to Pattertwig. Pattertwig did not deserve that treatment. He hadn’t said anything wrong. (Pattertwig was mad at that too since that was NOT the way it happened). I still don’t understand the exchange with Trumpkin about expecting someone taller. Being sensitive about his own size, I don’t think he would say something like that to someone who is short by normal standards. I can’t decide how I feel about seeing Reepicheep retreating from the castle raid. If Peter hadn’t ordered retreat, I’m sure he would have stayed and fought to the death. I suppose he took part in the battles in PC before the "help" came. If that is the case he must have retreated. He shows respect for the Kings so I could see him obeying orders but on the other hand, he does continue fighting after Peter tells him to "Come back" and that the battle is "no place for mice."
    I do agree with Gymfan that there were quite a few people who didn’t like Reep’s portrayal. I remember reading posts and reviews where people expressed that opinion.

  • glumPuddle says:

    The Izzard-haters keep on bringing up small instances like "shut up," and act like it defines the entire character. You have to consider very scene and then look at the character as a whole.

  • Clive Staples Sibelius says:

    In a movie it DOES define a character for the very reason that every scene is considered carefully by the film editors.

    • glumPuddle says:

      You cannot isolate one scene (or, in this case, two seconds) and forget about all others and say it defines the entire character.

      If that were the case, I could easily argue that Frodo hates Sam in LotR. Because remember that one scene in RotK where he sends Sam away?

      You have to look at ALL the scenes and come to a conclusion based on that. The Izzard-haters are putting the character under a microscope, finding small instances where Reep’s character isn’t consistent with the book, and saying it defines the entire character.

      I don’t really like ANY character saying "shut up." I’d prefer "quiet yourself" or something. But, saying that line ruined the entire character would be a major case of nit-picking. Because the meaning is exactly the same.

      • Serenia says:

        I’ve posted this before, but I’ll post it again. C.S. Lewis did use the phrase "shut up" in Prince Caspian, just not for Reepicheep. Check the end of chapter 9, "What Lucy Saw." Peter tells Susan, "Oh, shut up, shut up and let a chap think." I’m not saying that I like it or that Reep should say it, I’m just noting that C.S. Lewis was not opposed to using it in his story, not even by the High King.

  • Watziznehm says:

    I have to say, I agree with the Doc and Gymfan. glumPuddle, I think it was you who I heard say, "Reepicheep is cute and he knows he it cute." That is not how I see Reepicheep. In my opinion, Reepicheep knows that other people think he is cute and that perturbs him because he thinks he is a respected knight with the right to be FEARED. That is why I like Reepicheep — he doesn’t have a proper perspective of his size. I will say it agian. What makes Reepicheep so funny is that he isn’t funny at all. We get to see a two foot tall bundle of fur act like a most respected and FEARED knight.

    That is not the kind of performance I saw Izzard give. Sure, he was dashing, noble, and debonair, but on the other hand he cracked sarcastic jokes to be "funny". That is not the mark of a character who takes himself seriously. It is the mark of a "sassy little bugger". Come on, that isn’t who Reepicheep should be.

    • glumPuddle says:

      What I actually said was "Reep knows he is cute, and he HATES it."

      Once again, we are confusing Izzard’s performance with the script. Two different issues. I think your issue here is with the script. Could you give some specific examples of Reep being sarcastic that you didn’t like?

      I agree that the thing that makes Reep funny is he doesn’t quite acknowledge the irony in the fact that he is a warrior mouse, though he cannot help being reminded of it every now and then (In the last chapter of PC, he forbids anyone from mentioning things like cheese or traps). This was brilliantly captured in the film. The best example of this is probably the scene where he meets Peter. He tells him "our hearts and swords are at your service." Peter can’t help but smile, and Lucy says "he is so cute." To which Reep responds, "Who said that?!" Reep sensed disrespect and pulled out his sword as response. Big mistake, Lucy. Reep’s values his honor more than his own life.

      I really like what you said about a two foot bundle of fur acting like a FEARED knight. This was also brilliantly captured in the film. The best example is his introduction, and the way he addresses Caspian. He triumphantly tells Caspian to choose his last words carefully, and is then disappointed to find that Caspian is merely preoccupied with the fact that he is a mouse. In the book, when Caspian meets Reep, he has to try very hard not to laugh.

      Please defend anything you say about Reep with specific examples from the PRINCE CASPIAN book/movie.

      Very interesting that it seems the majority of NWebbers are not commenting. According to the current poll, 74% of NWebbers liked Izzard’s performance.

      I predict that the Izzard-haters will love Reep in VDT, and say they gave him more depth and was more like the book. The reality, however, is that the filmmakers will do exactly what Lewis did: Loosely establish just the concept of Reep in PC, and then develop him more in VDT. What we saw in PC is just a small piece of the puzzle that is Reepicheep.

  • glumPuddle says:

    Out of curiosity, I emailed a friend who had seen the movies, but had not read any of the books, and asked her to describe Reepicheep’s character in a paragraph. She has seen the PC movie twice, but her last viewing was over a year ago on DVD. (She thought the movie was okay, but not as good as LWW)

    MY EMAIL: ""As an unbiased non-reader, could you do me a favor and summarize the character of Reepicheep in a paragraph? Describe him like you would to someone who is totally unfamiliar with Narnia. What is he like? What is he all about?""

    HER RESPONSE: ""Honestly, if I were going to try and explain him to someone who had neither seen the movie nor read the book I would compare him to Puss in Boots from Shrek II. The fact that he’s so small, but can take down people and creatures hundreds of times his size is pretty cool. Regarding his personality, I’d describe him as chivalrous (in the knightly sense of the word.)""

    Sounds to me like she pretty much got the right idea. The point I’m trying to make here is that you can put Reep under a microscope and find things that don’t line up 100% with the book… but, at the end of the day, when people walk out of the theater, they had an accurate impression of who Reep is.

  • Christian says:

    Hmm… Honestly, I liked the representation of Reep throughout PC. I didn’t like how they did Peter, Caspian, or a handful of other characters, but they GOT Reep with only one out-of-character moment ("Shut up!" I laughed at that in the theater, sorry). Overall, they did a great job with him, and I don’t see what some of you guys are complaining about.

    About the shift from Izzard to Nighy… I’ve heard so many renditions of Reep’s voice–from the FotF version to the BBC–and each of them has grown on me over time. I’m not siding with anyone, I’m just gonna wait for the film. It’s my hope that they raise Nighy’s pitch a bit, as that would go with Lewis’ description of Reep’s voice, but I’m neutral. Just call me Switzerland. lol

  • Peepicheep says:

    I can’t believe they did that, I hope their new Reepicheep has a great voice and can sound right for the part. Why did the change the actors in the place? They need Eddie Izzard back to his rightful place. Oh please don’t change Reepicheep too much if they do I will be not a happy camper.