Interesting Tidbits On Rhince and Rynelf
Georgie Henley chats with Arthur Angel (left) and Tony Nixon (right)
From the blog of Mirko Grillini (who plays “The Belligerent Telmarine”):
Arthur [Angel] plays Rhince in the film, joining the crew on board of the Dawn Treader to begin his voyage looking for his wife.
Narnia has now reopened the door to [Tony Nixon’s] screen performance abilities with his role of Rynelf, the right hand of Captain Drinian (played by Gary Sweet). He is effectively my boss on the boat
For those of you who follow the discussions on the forum, we’ve long suspected that Rhince might be the father to Gael based on the video clip here where the two jump off the side of the ship to swim out to Gael’s mother.
We’d also noticed that Rhince never appears in a typical sailors costume unlike the rest of the crew, and rather appears to be a blacksmith or some other craftsman.
So this blog has confirmed that the role of Rhince has been changed from the book and Rynelf will be taking his place as First Mate. Should be interesting to see how they do this come Dec 2010!
Huge thanks to icarus for the find!
This is interesting! We will be wonder till December 2010, I guess. But it does promote the MLG father theory.
Yes! I commented first. I guess all my previous theories about this have some faults.
Does anyone know what "The Belligerent Telmarine" is all about?
I know! I don't remember that…
http://mirkogrillini.blogspot.com/2009/11/on-set-of-narnia.html
That's the best I have to offer. I think the sign is pretty funny and hope the title is a casual joke. Maybe being belligerent was part of his audition? I like it when even the side characters with lesser roles receive real names though.
RARG!!!!!HOW DARE THEY CHANGE THE CHARACTERS???!!!
Great, now we have some (more) context behind the MLG scene. But… was it necessary for Rhince to be demoted from first mate? Why not have Rynelf fill those shoes?
yeah, seriously
like, Caspian's gonna call on his now-first-mate to bring Ed, Lu, and Eu some spiced wine? (I doubt they even kept that in… but still!)
my thoughts exactly. why Rhince of all the characters they could choose from? or better yet, why even use Rhince and not just create a new character the same way they did with MLG?
i'm starting to wonder if this whole subplot with Rhince and MLG has any bearing on the plot or future Narnia movies or if its simply tacked on for dramatic effect? character development maybe, for Lucy specially? i guess given that Caspian and Eustace has the meaty parts they had to add something for the Pevensies. i guess wartime effects on the siblings seen at the beginning isnt enough for Apted.
I hope they dont change the plot too. I really didn't like how they did that with PC. AND, if they're gonna put the "spiced wine" part in the movie, then please let them put it in the right place. In Prince caspian they were taking lines from the books and putting them a in a totally wrong context. I'm just praying Apted will do better than Adamson.
~The CoriaKing
Wow. This is quite interesting. I must say that I'm not absolutely seething at this change, although I am a little disappointed. Why can't they just stay truer to the books? Come on, people; it's not that hard, is it?
Oh well. I still can't wait for the movie to come out, though. Mabye seeing the way that they pulled it off will change my opinion somewhat.
i agree Lady of Narnia.
I agree too. I don't like the change, but it might not be so bad if they do it right. If they can only do the other parts of the movie right…
Any change they make to the movie that is different from the book is a sign of a lack of creativity on the part of the film makers. There was something in the book that they didn't know how to fit onto the big screen, but instead of coming up with a creative solution as to how to fix the problem, they just change the story, or change the characters, to fit whatever it is they need (or want) to do with the movie.
Where in the book was there ever a man looking for his wife? Where does he intend on finding her? A deserted island? What an idiotic idea. These film makers can't come up with a story that is even half as decent as that of C.S. Lewis, so why not just stick to Lewis's original writing for crying out loud?
Nathan, I understand how you feel about this, but would like to ask you to give the moviemakers a little more credit. They have to consider their entire audience, and not just the adamant Narnia fans. Along with that, even authors tend to change the story slightly when it is translated onto screen. Take Cornelia Funke, for example, who wrote Inkheart. The movie was inherintly different from the book, yet Cornelia Funke was the producer of the movie and highly involved in the making of it. Even I, as a writer and an aspiring author, would do things a little differently on screen. Books are not movies, and movies are not books. There are some things you can do in books that simply won't work on screen, no matter how creatively you try to do it, and vice versa. I'm not saying that I think C.S. Lewis would approve of it, because I don't speak for him. However, his stepson, Douglas Gresham, probably has the best understanding of what Jack would have wanted more than anyone else, and he is highly involved in the making of the movies and highly approves of what has been done. Yes, sometimes moviemakers go too far with some of their adaptations, but that doesn't mean they are not creative. Sometimes being creative means having to come up with something new yet similar because the original simply won't work. I'm not trying to shoot you down or anything; you make some very good points. All I'm asking is that you be a little more open-minded.
Also, on your comment about Rhince looking for his wife, I have a hunch that she would have been taken as a slave to the Lone Islands. If that is the case, they probably did it to add to the deeply emotional impact of the Lone Islands and the abolishing of slavery. With Edmund's, Lucy's, Eustace's, King Caspian's and Reepicheep's capture, we get some sense of the seriousness of the matter, but we only get a brief glimpse into the impact slavery has had on people. With this added element to the story, we get a better insight on the toll the slave trade was taking not only on the people of Narrowhaven and the Lone Islands, but on the mainland Narnians as well. (Although I must say I wish they had used some other character other than Rhince. That, in my opinion, is crossing the line and overdoing the adaptations. Oh, well).
Yeah, I agree, I really wish they would stay closer to the books. But I'm just happy they are making the movie at all!:D
I have to say though, I will be scrutinizing my copy of VotDT very closely in the weeks before the movie comes out.
There were so many comments I agree with I didn't know which one to reply to! I chose this one because I know I will also be reading VDT before the movie comes out. I also wish they would stay closer to the book, don't see why they had change Rhince instead of having Rynelf have the wife (if they have to do that at all),and wonder where in the world they come up with these ideas.
Yeah, I totally agree. Why have Rhince looking for his wife and not Rynelf? I suppose we'll just have to see how it turns out on film… I really hope this is the last of the changes!! If they change anything else, I'm not going to be too happy. 🙁
Anyways, it's good to hear someone else will be reading the book before the movie! 🙂 I want to see how close they keep it, and if the same feel is there. 😀
Totally true! And this explains that Gael is Rhince's daughter. And how in the world did thet come up with this CRAZY idea? I mean, if they're searching for his wife, then they're be searching for his wife AND world's end, AND the lords! WOW! busy, busy, busy! Hope nothing else is changed too!
A most excellent question… where DO they get these ideas from? I wonder….
Yes, I hope the movie won't be cluttered with too many plots and subplots. :S
They get their ideas from the same place that Bigfoot and the Lochness monster came from…..lol. 😀
From what I can tell, this isn't necessarily bad. In fact, it is wonderful that Rhince wants to find his wife in the film. But if they change a major plotline in the books just to accomodate this (I still can't forget that part of only a voyage to the end of the world saving Narnia.) And it depletes another scene from the book, this will be bad news. Too many main characters also might hurt the story.
It would give a very good reason to depose governor Gumpas.
Keep praying that the film will turn out right.
Wow, it's good to have some inside reports from the set! Hopefully he'll report often and in detail. He seems like a great source. Long live the Narnia Bloggers!
Wow, just popped over to the blog and he talks a little about Rhince… "Arthur (red shirt) plays Rhince in the film, joining the crew on board of the Dawn Treader to begin his voyage looking for his wife. " MLG's mom?
I'll just bet you're right!
That was my guess. 😀
yeah. maybe he just joined the dawn Treader in hopes of finding her.
hmmmm. well thats interesting but i stand by the books and it is totally contradictory to what was in the books. RHINCE was the right hand man not rynelf. And they never had that plot in there. oh well. I stick by the BOOK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Woot! I totally agree with you there!
Right with you, my friend. I'm not too hot about the switching of roles. Rhince was a good first mate! And Rynelf sounds more…sailerly, somehow. It's not a big change of course, but even little things like that that are different from the book affect how the movie plays out (pardon the pun).
*sigh* Come on Apted. You're our only hope for keeping the Narnia series going. If VDT fails…this site gets a lot less attention. ;D lol
Nooooo!
Don't get too upset yet. The change could have been worse. They could have made Rhince a traitor, secretly working with Pug. Or they could have made his wife a mermaid. 😉
Oh no! They could still do that! Movie people, don't get any ideas from my joking around!
Oi. This is true. And they could always shove a Lucian scene or two in there, or have Gael/Eustace. And they'll have any number of other little things out of place I shouldn't wonder. But that's the spirit, Starlily. Look on the bright side of things. ;D
*shudders* Don't jinx it!!! We would NOT want any of that to happen!!!
Lol Caspian, are you trying to be like Puddleglum? I always liked the way he talked. We'll have some rain today, I shouldn't wonder. Unless we get a tornado, or a flood, or a hurricane…
😉
Gosh, how silly. This rattles my cage a bit.
Interesting. I still don't see why they can't just stick to the book because everyone loves it and it has plenty excitement in it without adding anything. Keep the story of Aslan alive!
Strangely enough, giving Rynelf Rhince's position doesn't bug me. Mostly because it took me a few readings before I realized that they were different characters.
I'm more annoyed that we seem to be getting a side-plot about Rhince, his wife, and his daughter. We have enough story as it is, we don't need to be adding subplots!
Too true! I am anxious to see how all this plays out…
I agree. I know I get many charactors confused in books when they have similarly spelt names. But I do hope they keep more to the book on this film. They most likely only tell the things that are not in the books to stir people who love the books, like us, up. Don't dwell on this too much.
This all probably leads up to the whole "save narnia blahblahblah" thing, not just a random subplot. I hope.
Sounds like Rhince may be Gael's father after all.
I am not enthusiastic about an extra plot element (Rhince looking for his wife) because I don't see what bearing it has on Caspian's quest, but oh well.
Actually, unless Rhince's wife/Gael's mom (assuming that is correct) is a slave on the Lone Islands. I guess I wouldn't object to a more personal element being added there.
I have no idea why they switched Rhince and Rynelf (if I even understand this article correctly, because I am always getting those two mixed up), but I don't mind. Doesn't seem too big to me.
Y
Whoops! I was going to say, remember how they switched Glozelle and Sopespian in PC? Glozelle was supposed to be the guy who thought up the plan to betray Miraz. But they made him a sympathetic character in the movie. This kind of reminds me of that, but in a different way.
Oh yeah! *shakes head* Why do they have to do so much switching?
No kidding!!!!!
Glozelle was going to be killed in the very last battle scene of PC. It was Glozelle's actor who suggested to Adamson that Glozelle be redeemed.
Hmm, interesting. Well, although I don't like deviations from the book, I have to admit I liked Glozelle being nicer, because I like it when baddies turn good (which is why I also like the minotaurs). But I still hate annoying little changes like Rynelf and Rhince's roles being switched…
Starlily: It's on the audio commentary for PC. Favino had pitched the idea to Adamson that Glozelle survive the battle because Favino had developed his own idea of who Glozelle really was. I enjoyed the way it turned out too, the same way they made Prunaprismia not a despicable person. Every Telmarine can't be a bad guy or else they would have had a coup d'etat against Caspian already.
I think the most confusing thing about the Rhince and Rynelf situation is switching out the First Mate but there might be something else to the situation within the story that we simply haven't discovered yet.
Thank you for the info, tenthofthatname. And as I said, I'm glad they made more of the Telmarines good, or else it wouldn't make sense Caspian being the only noble one.
And you're right. There might be a reason for the Rynelf/Rhince role reversal. It doesn't bother me terribly much, but it seems kind of silly right now…
Well…at least now the MLG theory has been confirmed…but I'm not sure I like how far they're straying from the book. Hmmm…
I dont like the armor. too plain. (in the picture)
haha. well spoken for someone who has a lovely, Narnian shield as picture
lol. totally.
Totally agree with you…too Telmarinish. Doesn't remind me much of the golden age of Narnia… 🙁
I'm not hot on the general look of the leather armor either, but plate and chain mail at sea is a terrible idea in practice.
Yeah…how would you swim (if you had to) with all that bulky chain mail on? Everything just looks really drab and like you said sort of impractical. Except when they fight the sea serpent. hopefully that scene is done well–not overdone, but convincing and adding to the adventure mood of the whole movie.
Can't wait to see how this whole MLG and Rhince/Rynelf thing turns out, it's getting really interesting!
Interesting, most interesting. At least both characters will be in VDT. 🙂
I don't really understand why they feel the need to add a plot line. There is so much going on in VotDT that i already think they are going to have to cut stuff, so why make up new stuff just to add. I don't think i really get it, but what can you do.
I don't get it either. *sigh*
Hmm, what I'm wondering is how Rhince got separated from his wife in the first place… I'm very curious and some horrible theories are swimming in my head. X( Hopefully we will hear more about this soon!!!
Yeah, I'm pretty curious too.. How did they get seperated in the first place?
That is part of the mystery…..*bwa ha ha*….lol 😀
I'm not so sure I like mysteries when they involve the plot of my dear Narnia! 😉
I know. Me either. 🙁
If you read a post of mine above this, my theroy is that he loses his wife mysteriously and thinks sailing on the Dawn Treader will allow him a chance to find her.
Far fetched. But it's the only idea I have.
I think I'm okay with the added plotline, as long as having the MLG on the ship doesn't take away from Lucy's role. What confuses me is why they had Rhince be the father and Rynelf be the first mate. Why not have Rhince stay the first mate and have Rynelf be Gael's father since he doesn't do as much as Rhince anyway? Except for his big speech on Ramandu's Island, Rynelf is pretty much just the sailor with a name.
You know, I was thinking the exact same thing – why Rhince and not Rynelf? Rhince has the cooler name, anyway 😉
But I guess as long as this doen't take away from the main theme of VDT, I'm okay with it. They're still off looking for the seven lords, there's still this sense of adventure that appealed to me in the book, and there's still the big Eustace becoming a better person thing. As long as they keep the essencials and stay true to the theme, I'm good.
And besides, now that we know what's up with MLG, I'm sort of curious how it's all going to turn out…
I must say I have very mixed feelings about this. First, I'm pretty sure I'll be okay with this whole subplot, because, if Rhince's wife is a slave on the Lone Islands, it adds a very personal reason to abolishing the slave trade and brings it to a much deeper level than in the book. On the other hand, it simply isn't logical to switch the roles of Rhince and Rynelf. I'm with everybody on this part…what was the reasoning behind this switch??? It makes absolutely NO sense. And I don't believe the scriptwriters simply confused the roles–that would suggest that they weren't very fervent in their research. I think they do go through extensive research, and then change the plot up a bit to make it more interesting and involved for the audience. And please don't shoot me for saying that. 😉 Many of us Narnia fanatics tend to forget that the target audience includes non-Narnian fans as well, like the several thousand people who have seen the movies and liked them, but have never read the books. Pacing and timing are also very important in movies, where they are carried out differently than they are in books. Moviemakers have a two to two and a half hour block of time to fit in the story as well as all the points they want to get across. That's probably why the timing for the blowing of the horn and seeking Aslan in PC was so different; in order to have good pacing and a fair amount of tension, they had to change the order of things a bit. On the other hand, I do not approve of major character changes, because characters, in my opinion, are the heart and soul of a story. You change the character, you change the entire story.
You've got some very good points there, Fire Fairy.
I agree. I have a cousin (who isn't much of a true Narnian) and she loved how they added the kiss with Susan and Caspian in PC even though it was a total mess up from the book.
Yes, but I thought of something.
Susan was amazed somewhat at Caspian when she first saw him. But because the filmmakers made the little change to have the Pevensies meet Caspain earlier, that gave Caspian and Susan bonding time they did not have in the book. And that led to the kiss.
I'm suspecting that, like Suspain, this is part of a bigger picture.
Oops. I wrote SusPAIN. Sorry. I meant Suspian. (No, I didn't do that on purpose. But still… *snickers*)
While I am ok with the change, I do think they could have easily stayed true to the book. I also don't understand why they are always changing the story…
I like Gael, and I like it that Rhince is looking for his wife; it makes a very interesting story. I wonder how this is all going to come about….
NO NO NO NO NO!!! THIS SOUNDS EXACTLY LIKE THE LEAKED SCRIPT!!! AGGGHH!!!! this is horrible.
It doesn't really sound anything like the leaked script. =P
What was in the leaked script, anyway? I never heard.
Yea, what's the leaked script? Whatever it is, it sure sounds horrible. Maybe it reveals some of the story line. Let's hope nothing happens crazy like something going on between Lucy and Caspian! They did enpugh with the Susan/Caspian thing. Besides, Lucy is too young to be in that situation!
If what I read was the actual leaked script (I say that because it sounded TO ME like a sick prank), it's not worth it. It's pure craziness.
Everybody, before you freak out, remember that the filmmakers have SAID over and over that they are trying to stay true to the themes of the book. Also, the filmmakers said that it was a very early experimental draft which should never have been seen by anyone except a very small group of producers. And what we've seen does NOT sound like the leaked script (as far as I've seen, anyway).
Yeah, that is true, Lady Galadriel. BUT, it is one thing to say and another thing to do….
HELLO!?!?! WHAT IS THE LEAKED SCRIPT? sheesh, it's like we're invisible or something!
Sorry about that. The leaked script was this early script for the movie, whether it was fake or real, that somehow got into the hands of the public. It caused quite a scare. And for a good reason, too. The plot involved the Lady of the Green Kirtle, searching for the North star or something like that, and several other things that leave a bad taste in my mouth. I think they even included a crush Lucy had on Caspian. I won't go into any more details. In essence, it was enough to make any Narnia fan choke, shudder, or even have a stroke.
what is the leaked script? i'm dying to know!! someone answer me please!
WHAT!!!!!!! THEY CAN'T HAVE A CRUSH ON EACH OTHER?!?!?! AND THE LADY OF THE GREEN KIRTLE DOESN'T EXIST YET! WHERE'S THE LEAKED SCRIPT? I HHAAVVEE TO SEE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It was removed from the internet a few days after someone discovered it, over a year ago.
Except for the fact that they are changing things from the book, there really is no similarities between this and the leaked script. It is discouraging at the same time.
It seems like every time we get a bit of news we discover something new that has been changed.
where can i find the leaked script? or is it that bad?
Reading summeries left by people who have seen it will be enough to scar Narnianuts for life.
Very interesting, i hope this change is for the better in the film, I don't really get the reason they needed to change the character, but if they pull it off right it could work well in the film I'm sure. Once again we'll just have to wait and see what happens!
This is interesting. I'm kind of glad Rhince has bigger part and it kind of gives him a personal goal for going on this voyage. I wonder what happened to his wife? Captured by slave traders possibly? I'm also glad that the Gael mystery is solved. I'm also glad they are giving the sailors bigger parts, in the books they were just sailors with names. I hope this movie is like 2 1/2 hours long, because with all the stuff they are doing they need all the time they can get with in reason! Cannot wait until the movie comes out. I hope they make a trailer in December. I am dying to at least get a glimpse of the film! Sail on VDT!
Its the most frustrating thing with these sort of changes. Maybe they arent the biggest changes in the world, but they are so needless and easily avoidable it just makes them all the more annoying.
Im all for expanding the minor characters such as Rhince and Rynelf, as they can be pretty faceless and interchangable in the book, but at the end of the day the one fact about both characters is that Rhince is the first mate, and Rynelf is not the first mate. How hard is it to get that right? Its like with the Glozelle/Sopespian character switchover in the last film, you get the point where you think "why don't they just switch the names round?"
My thoughts exactly! It makes the scriptwriters and director more careless than anything. Makes me wonder how much reverence they have for the source material…
why are they changing the story?????hopefully it'll all come together. this must be the reason Gael is here. she must be Rhince's daughter.
Interesting…
This does seem to support the theory about him and the MLG, but why not just have Rynelf be her father and keep Rhince as the first mate? Also, I wonder where his wife is that he has to possibly sail to the end of the world to find her.
I guess I'll just have to wait until December 10 next year, but that does seem incredibly far away…
agreed
agreed
agreed
and agreed again!
agree also! ya know i bet it would had been easier on them if they had rynelf do that part and just keep rhince as he is.
uh-huh
Yeah, I am really curious about the Rhince's 'wife'. It seems pretty strange that she could be on one of the islands that the Dawn Treader passes by, and even stranger is wondering how she got there! Maybe if she got caught by slave traders and sold on the Lone Islands… But if they found her there, then that would be pretty soon in the movie to end that sub-plot… It would seem like a waste of space to me.
I really wonder how this all is going to play out. 🙂
Well, now the MLG has a reason to be here, and now she is begining to make sense. This sounds interesting, but very far from the book. I hope they don't change too much…
Yes, this is interesting, but I'm going to wait and see. It is still possible this whole MLG subplot will wind up on the cutting room floor. "That's show biz" got to be a cliche for a reason.
I think this is cool. But then again, I am such a narnia freak that anything they do will be approved by me. I think it adds more depth to the story, although it is not directly from the book. I can't wait more than ever for the movie to come ou!!!!!
narnianelf: I have to agree with you wholeheartedly!
I'm such a NarniaNut that I can't STAND a new twist in the plot to this extreme! (I mean, PC was plenty bad enough….)
I'm with Ariel.
wow! this will be interesting to see! why did they do that though? well, I suppose Mr. Apted wanted to add a new plot to VotDT, but why like this? oh well, I will have to wait and see the movie and then see how it comes out!
I'm seriously hyperveliating. For all I know, they're ruining my favorite book from the series at this very moment! The worst part is,I don't know for sure if the change is good or bad because there is not enough spoliers to find out! Forget about suprising me when the movie comes out! I need to know!
I see two things from this story. First, it confirms the thought that MLG is the daughter of Rhince. Second, it makes me think that the plotlines stolen from other books is plot from HHB. I just hope that it doesn't mean that they aren't going to make HHB.
oye cuando se va a extrenarse la pelicula el dia 7 de mayo del 2010 o hasta Diciembre 10 del 2010 eso me confunde mucho yo ya quiero ver la pelicula estoy emocionado por verla y ganas sisisisisisisisi bye.
Rough translation:
"Hey when oneself trains/exercises the film the May 7, 2010 or until Dec. 10, 2010 that confuses me. I want to view the film. I am excited for ____ and (you)win."
IF my above translation is correct, here is my answer:
The movie comes out December 10, 2010. I agree: I am definitely excited to see it too!
NOOOOO!!! Rhince joins only because he's looking for his WIFE?!? and he brings his little MLG-daughter along? Since when?! What can they DO to this movie?!?!?!?! First, Caspian has a beard (which was bad enough), then they gave him a ponytail (which made it WAY worse), then they gave Lucy a sword (which may or may not be okay), then the MLG makes a surprise appearance, now THIS!?! This CAN'T BE HAPPENING!
Exactly what I wanted to say!! so far the only part that I am really truly happy with is Eustace's character…from what we've seen, Will is perfect for the part and Eustace is as obnoxious as we would all like him to be. Of course, they better not mess up his later transformation, because that's a major part of the theme of the book. But really, give us a break…please, filmmakers, please make a decent ATTEMPT to stay true to the book!!!! ok, I'll stop now
Wow. I think this is the first time someone's replied to something I've posted (unless this is just my first time noticing…).
And I have to agree with you about Eustace: I really like what I'm seeing of him so far (even though it's not much). And judging from that interview with Will, Eu is so obnoxious that his actor doesn't even like him! lol
Okay, that would have been just my first time noticing. I've been replied to before (looking back to things I said in, like, September!).
I know, I know. It is a bit frustrating, isn't it? We Narnia purists just hate to see anything changed; it's hard to see someone basically saying, "It's not good enough." 🙁 But cheer up, I'm sure it won't be so bad in the end. Even though PC was drastically changed, I had to make myself see what I DID like about it, and be content with that.
Horrible isn't it? And don't forget Edmund and Caspian sword fighting.
relax, the Caspian-Edmund scene is just playful sparring, not a heated argument that boiled over like what happened with Peter and Caspian in PC. thats the kind of additions i dont mind having. subplots and character switcheroos like this one is something that i have to be extremely skeptical about.
Yeah, the Caspian/Edmund sword fight is just a friendly spar. Nothing to be worried about. In fact, it's just what I'd expect them to do… I would!
You get full support from me when it comes to hating the beard (and ponytail too, come to think of it). Everyone else seems to think he looks like Aragorn.
Which doesn't make it better. ;D lol
I think he looks like Josh in Valediction/Locked In.
Oh wait.
Why are people freaking out over a beard? It's JUST a beard. Sheesh.
yes. A very horrible beard. 🙂
Um, hello? Am I the only person that is confuzzled right now? I mean, did the filmmakers not find the book itself interesting enough or something? Did they feel like they would have to embellish it (cough cough ADD WEIRD SUBPLOTS cough cough) for it to be appealing to audiences? Because if that's the case then I would have to DISAGREE!!!
well sometimes they do have to do that, embelish the story a bit. the only reason though is because they want to make sure they appeal to audiances. if a storyline is too boring or bland (im not saying the books are though) they have to improvise to appeal to the people so they can make money. thats basically where all of this stuff comes from: to bring in money. and yes i dont like that but thats how business works.
Yeah I know what you're saying. But take LWW, for example. It wasn't EXACTLY like the book word for word but it was still faithful to it, one reason why I think it was so successful. By embellish i meant changing entire concepts and sequences. For example, in PC, the susan/caspian romance and the castle raid. They were purely subplots that the filmmakers put in themselves in an attempt to make it better. Those are the changes that I'm talking about, and that's the type of change this whole Rhince/Rynelf thing is sounding like.
I totally agree with you, Long Live King Skandar!
LWW was a greater success because, even though they changed things (some that I like were Jadis' castle, crown, wand, and dress; the waterfall scene; and Aslan restoring Tumnus first), they stayed very close to the books. PC went WAY off course (eg: the UNNECESSARY night raid; Caspian blowing the horn so soon; "Supian" trash; Peter acting the way he does (which, TO AN EXTENT, is okay because it's understandable); and Lucy finding Aslan AT THE END OF THE FILM, shortening his significant role by, like, 75% if not more; and so on). Everybody's hoping that VDT will revive the Narnia movies.
Haha Ariel of Narnia…I like that term, Supian…think I'm going to use it from now on 🙂 And you're 100% correct about the changes; the most disappointing for me, even more than Supian, was the way Aslan's role was so significantly diminished. He became more of a friendly uncle/nice-old- man-next-door type person who loves to help others but can't always do so. Are you kidding me?? Aslan is THE lion, the TRUE king of Narnia, and all he as to say is, "We can never know what would have happened, Lucy"??? What happened to his greatness and wisdom? ok, deep breath..but yeah, what you've said is totally true.
No actually Aslan said something very similar to this in HHB, only it was more like "That is not for us to worry about" (to that effect)
They diminished his role in PC, but never really changed it.
woh woh woh slooooowww down! what are they thinking?! i dont understand…. why do they want to do that? why couldnt they jusy make Rynelf the one with the daughter and missing wife? i dont think im really liking this. when it comes to changing up characters i dont like it at all. well, im just trusting to God (and aslan :-)) that this doesnt hurt the story too much and the movie will still be great. im glad i know this now so that i dont sream and freak out while im watching the movie and learn this then.
… you know, that's a REALLY good point!
haha so true!!
Seriously,Why can't they just stick with the books??????
That's what I (and how many others?)want to know!
dido! 😀
i dont really understand why either, but thats what business does. however i wish they would realize that this business connects the most with outer people, and the most you want to do is satisfy them. now of course keeping to the book would satisfy all of us narniawebbers im sure, however there are some people out there or want to mess with things. the only thing i dont like is that when people who have not read the books see the movie, and then read them, they'll be confused and not be able to enjoy the book as much anymore! that happened to my little sister. after we watched prince caspian she read a short version of the book and couldnt understand why she couldnt find the night raid or the romance in there, and i had to tell it they werent. of course she then began to wonder why the movie was like that. see, its annoying!
I think most of us have come to a conclusion: "Why on earth do they have to keep changing the story?" The answer? THEY DON'T. They want to. Big difference. But the way I see it, this isn't as bad as like say the Night Raid. Sure, it changes the story a bit, but it is per say an ok change, I mean, I think most of us will eventually be fine with it. I just hope there aren't any more major changes….
I must say that I agree with you whole-heartedly, Narniamiss. As long as there aren't any more REALLY major changes, I think I'll be fine with it. The whole plot thing with Gael (I hope I spelled it correctly) is quite interesting, if you ask me. But that is just my opinion.
This may, in my opinion, end up like the movie Eragon. A really great movie by itself, but very dim in comparison to the book.
They don't HAVE to change things. But they should. The Night Raid was a good change. In the book, Lewis skims over several battles in a few paragraphs. That works great in a book. But in a movie, it makes much more sense to do one big battle. That's what adaptation is all about: Take something that works well in a book, and try to make it work just as well in a movie.
The main theme of the VDT book is "longing." A longing to find one's true home. Does Rhince and his wife fit into that somehow? We'll see. This may be a change designed to emphasize important themes of the book that might otherwise be lost in translation. This was the reason most of the changes in PC were made.
Agreed, glumPuddle; the changes from PC were still "in the spirit of the book," if you ask me. The same things basically happened, only with a different way of saying them. Still, I happened to dislike the different way of saying things that they chose.
glumPuddle, thank you so much for being the voice of reason. A lot of us have a tendency to shoot down anything that isn't "true" to the books. Many of us forget what it means to adapt a book into a movie. A lot of changes have to take place to make the pacing, tension, and other things fit together. The moviemakers also have to consider that large part of their audience that has never even picked up a Narnia book–will they like what they see? Or will they end up with only Narnia fans going to the movies? Just something to think about.
Very true, glumPuddle. Let's try to be optimistic, and see how it turns out. At least we're getting our frustration out of our systems now, instead of while we're watching the movie. 🙂
i agree with glumpuddle as well. though i am not liking the changes very much,(in fact im a person who doesnt like any change, thats why im not liking this) i understand perfectly why they do it. they just want to make a successful movie, and sometimes changes are needed to make it successful. PC's changes did work with the story very well (except for the romance….blech) and i think that they can pull it off to make these changes work too. even though i wish badly they didnt make them, i will not fight it because i know it wont do much good. and besides, if they've done it great before twice now, they can do it again. all we can do right now is just trust and hope. me personally, its not the quality that really matters, its the whole spirit of narnia and C.S. Lewis thats in it. as long as they keep that alive, im good 😀
Agreed glumpuddle, so true.
And sometimes that is what we have to do, Lady of narnia, take the movie by its self. don't compare it with the book. even though I still think that it will follow the book just enough to say what Lewis did.
GP: I agree that PC needed a little more than what the book gave for a movie viewing, but don't have the same thoughts for Dawn Treader. I don't think they "should" changed DT at all; it is an excellent story, and I think viewers would love to see the story as it is; even people who haven't even read the story. I'm not saying I'm totally against changes, but I do wish they would just leave this story alone.
Narniamiss: I have to disagree with you about people liking the story as it is. I know a couple of people who can't finish VDT or the Chronicles in general because "they're boring" yet they managed to finish LWW and PC because they read them in the context of the movies. Basically by having seen the movies first and liking them, they got through LWW and PC because in their minds they were interpreting the characters and story the way they were portrayed in the films. Going from film to book made it more enjoyable.
I think that's the largest target audience where the Walden Media movies are concerned; it's great if the general movie goer loves the film, even better if it motivates them to read the book. For strict unchangeable fans of the book, it's great if you come out to see the movie anyway, even better if you happen to like it.
Hey, can i join the glumpuddle fan club here? 🙂
excellent points, everybody. I know what everybody's getting at. I felt like the land of Narnia was changed forever after the golden age, in LWW. People never forgot the four siblings who ruled justly with the blessing of Aslan, kind of like the way our entire world was changed forever with the coming of Jesus Christ (Aslan's sacrifice…). I feel like future generations of Narnia always held a kind of reverence for the kings and queens of old…they became legendary and a part of the identity of the people of Narnia. With that in mind, I felt like later books in the series portrayed a kind of awe for the past, but that this respect and reverence didn't make its way to the films, e.g. PC. Of course, maybe it just may have been difficult to portray that realistically but I was disappointed how the Pevensie siblings and Aslan were just treated like any other teens or nice uncles would have been treated in any other movie. At least, that was the effect given by Peter's attitude, his mistakes, Susan/Caspian, etc. I felt like the filmmakers didn't really capture the atmosphere of rulers returning from the past to help people out of hard times and oppression…brandishing swords doesn't make it convincing enough. I hope this whole speech didn't sound too abstract or something…changes are good and necessary but the essence of the message should definitely not be messed with.
that was powerful, long live king skander! thats exactly what im looking to, the whole essence of the story. yeah the #1 thing that bothered me the most in PC is that the pevensies became more like "teenagers" than returning royalty. in LWW, they were innocent, young, strong, and together. in PC it almost felt like they were actually drifting away from eachother, and werent the family team they were in LWW. and they had teen attitudes like peter did and teen emotions and situations like susan did and it just turned them into annoying tennagers that were just messing things up than royalty returning to their kingdom and helping the narnians. they didnt have that, well, royalty essence about them. maybe lucy, but even she seemed as if she was drifting away. they needed more aslan, and i bet if they had done that it would have changed the whole movie. which is why im hoping VDT will be okay because there's even LESS aslan in it than PC.
Long Live King Skandar — are you saying that it seems to you like the Pevensies were more immature in PC than they should have been? Then I agree.
narnian resident, thanks! I agree with the points you made as well. Narnia and Narnians are simply not the "typical" moody-teenager type movie material, and I feel like a lot of PC was just an attempt to be like the rest of the movies being made out there. I was like, "come on people for the love of Aslan get it RIGHT!!!!" lol
Lady Galadriel-yeah, that's pretty much what i was getting at. I would of thought that the events of LWW would make them grow stronger and closer together, but I didnt see much of it except for Edmund helping Peter out and standing up for Lucy. That was about it, from what I can think of right now.
Making the Pevensies act like perfect mature adults without weaknesses in PC would contradict the book. You paint the Pevensies as if they are flawless individuals which even the books tell us they are not. If they were so "mature" in PC how can you explain the Pevensies dismissing Lucy to the point that it makes her cry? In my opinion their maturity shines in the second half of the movie, particularly after the threat of Jadis underscores how they've been going about things the wrong way. The deleted Picking Marshalls scene has Peter telling Caspian "Narnia's future is in your hands." while Caspian is worried about Peter having to duel. This has the spirit of the book, it's just a shame it was cut from the film's running time.
Nobody ever said that the Pevensies have to be perfect and make all the right decisions all the time. They're only human. What I think people have been saying is that the way some of them were portrayed as any other typical teenager would be in other movies was disappointing for some. So much time is spent in PC where they're just fighting (amongst themselves or with the Telmarines) that the audience didn't really get to see how each individual has grown since the time of LWW. Besides, this whole conversation was started reminiscing about the golden age of Narnia, not pointing fingers at PC's faults; see for yourself. As for Lucy crying when being ignored, nobody said the others were mature. The whole point was that they were trying to be, and in doing so they made yet another mistake. You are perfectly right in saying that the encounter with Jadis was a major turning point; it shows how especially Peter and Caspian start to realize they'd been as stubborn and at fault as the other. Sheesh, didn't want to start an argument. We're all Narnia fans, for goodness sake.
I'm seeing people saying they acted like "typical teenagers" yet dismissing what Lucy saw to the point of making her cry is "typical teenager" behavior. I am kind of glad they didn't make it so dramatic in the movie because it felt almost cruel to me in the book. Sibling tension was downplayed to emphasize the message of faith. In any case this was in the book, therefore the criticism of their being typically teenager with teenage emotions in the movies must apply to the book as well, but I am interpreting the commentary here as if people think that behavior is only in the movies. Regardless of that, I am definitely in huge disagreement about the Pevensies overall acting like "typical teenagers" in the PC movie and in the PC book, moreso in the movie than in the book. Even adults, generally good leaders, will have quarrels and trouble with emotions. Strengths and weaknesses in all areas make a character rounded. Honestly, the Pevensies are not the Goonies which doesn't make the Goonies any lesser for it, but they are by far more "typical teenager" than the Pevensies ever will be.
They are so liberal with the story!!!
I will enjoy the movie with the changes as they stand now, but no more!
I agee with glumpuddle
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! I am very angry! I knew it! I knew they would change things! Dumb dumb dumb!!! I don't like it at all!
And the twisting of the story begins…
sounds like the beginning of a whole other tale
Exactly … which I don't want!
Well, this piece of information is not a surprise to me. I thought that was what was going on, I just didn't know who's daughter Gael was. To me the whole mixing of Rhince/Rynelf doesn't affect me, if that's the only change, I'm good with it. So long as the finding of the Lords is properly explained and has it's due significance, I don't mind little, I say little, subplots. Also the bit with Lucy and the magicians book has to be emaculate, or I won't be very happy!
Don't forget the Island of dreams! And the Albatross! And the Beginning of the End of the World! And the end of the world! And the lamb! And…well, there's so much I want them to get right…oh,well. We can't be too picky, or we'll never be satisfied with it.
Of course! The music at the end of the world is my absolute favourite bit! I was just emphasizing on the bit with Lucy and the book because I could see it going horribly off-track and ruining the moment entirely. I mean they could make it all about Lucy being jealous of the fact that Caspian "liked" Susan (when he doesn't "like" Lucy in that way) and not her, subsequently, she wants to make herself more beautiful than Susan because she thinks that then Caspian will "like" her. That would sicken me and ruin the POINT of the temptation. The point was: Lucy felt like Susan was always gushed over and admired and Lucy just wanted to be in the limelight and outshine Susan (which was a childish, selfish thought and thats why Aslan stops her). She then feels like she missed out and does the knowing-what-your-friends-think-of-you spell instead and finds that she really didn't like what she heard. I just want the focus kept on Lucy's personal struggle and Aslan's guidance rather than creating a love triangle!
Well said, Lillyput90.
As I have been seeing of the comments thus far there seems no small amount of worry over the content of the book being severly damaged.
Such an alteration would greatly cheapen, as well as distract from the true "message" of the scene, as it was written.
That part, throwing Gumpas out, Deathwater Island, and Caspian trying to be smart about a kiss ending the enchantment for me. I can already hear Ben Barnes' Caspian trying to be smooth and I love it.
Oh yeah! They totally have to keep that part in! It's clever and funny. I'll be surprised if they don't keep it.
Haha RD's witty reply to Caspian is probably one of the few glimpses we get of her having an actual personality.
Interesting. but it might actually work. I don't really care about who is who, those characters are minor characters so it doesn't really matter. Just as long as the show the spritual connection.
Woah!! Rhince never had a daughter on the boat. . .right?!?!
Exactly right. In the book, he didn;t even ahve a wife or daughter (or if he did, C.S. Lewis didn't say anything about it.)
huh…well I don't think it will be a problem. I wish they hadn't changed it though. Oh well, these things happen.
At least Rhince's wife isn't the LoTGK herself, it could be worse. And this better explains the presence of Gael. I can't feel bothered by this switch because I barely remember Rhince and Rynelf beyond being generic sailors. I remember Pug and Gumpas better. As with what glumPuddle said, if this change to the plot emphasizes the theme of "longing" in VDT then fine by me. We won't know until the movie comes out of course. For the record I loved the Night Raid in PC. The concept of failure is hard to express in a 3 minute montage, which is what would have happened if they did it exactly like the book. The Night Raid and the aftermath expressed failure perfectly. For everyone who wants the film to follow the book down to a T…forget about the movies, that ship sailed with LWW and it isn't coming back. Frankly I like it that way.
I don't mind some changes to the book, as long as they're good. I did like the Night Raid, it made PC more interesting, as opposing to the book where some parts just flatline. But I hope they don't change things too much.
I really liked the scene in the book of Wimbleweather having made a mistake during a battle and being so sad his tears nearly drown some of the Talking Mice, but I can see how that might be too comical or even too "cartoonish" to put into a movie with human actors and real violence. For me, in the books there's a disconnect between the reality of blood and death and the way it's handled by the characters. That's why I love changes like the Night Raid, it's not in the book but it managed to translate the dramatic effect of loss in place of Wimbleweather weeping.
So I'm really hoping this thing with Rhince and Rynelf is to translate a theme or the spirit of the story but we won't know till we see it.
"For me, in the books there's a disconnect between the reality of blood and death and the way it's handled by the characters."
I've experienced that too. So when I watch the movie, I cringe when I see Reepicheep and Caspian killing people, but I realize they did that in the book too. C. S. Lewis kind of glossed it over. That can be both a good and a bad thing…
Starlily: It's definitely one of the challenges of adapting a fantasy series geared towards a younger audience while tackling the more 'adult' concepts in it that can be glossed over in words but not as easy to gloss over in film. I don't think I'm the only person who kind of cringed when Rabadash said "For I must have her as my wife, though she shall learn a sharp lesson first." To an older reader that line combined with Rabadash's horrible personality can make you think of grave consequences. Similarly I can't imagine how they would put Aravis' getting her back slashed due to her servant getting whipped on film without it scaring younger audience members. At the same time cutting out that scene or toning it down graphically would seriously downplay the seriousness of it.
You're right, I never thought about the scene with Aravis! That could be hard to put on screen.
But you know, I think it's kind of a good thing that C. S. Lewis mixed some adult concepts into his stories, because now that I'm older I can see them and think about them more in depth.
Which, as I said before, could be a good AND a bad thing…
Don't forget, C.S. Lewis felt that "growing up" meant finding your inner child. Didn't he tell Lucy that he hoped she would eventually be "old enough" to read children's stories again? Perhaps he included adult themes so he could connect with adults as well as children, so that anybody could read it no matter their age.
I agree with glumPuddle. I just wish they made a new character for this instead of using Rhince.
I like this change… I never found them to be very interesting persons in the book, and I'm glad they are changing the crew a bit so that it is more diverse crowd of characters… this is sounding really exciting!
So he starts our the voyage looking for his wife, and his child is with him? Interesting..very interesting..
I like the idea of the story being changed a little. That way we have the books and we have the movies. Its like an expansion of Narnia. The more the better as long as it is not totally insane!
No. The book is the standard. C.S. Lewis made Narnia, why does it need expanded by those who did not write it? I am satisfied with the books
Ye, but only to a certain extension. This is above and beyond-and not in a good way.
I agree with Silver the Wanderer: what they add is far less important than what they take out. My biggest fear is that VDT does not have as much of an action-based climax like the first 2 books, but instead has more personal & religious themes (Eustace, Reepicheep)–considered "boring" by today's filmmakers for big-budget movies. They could get away with huge Lord of the Rings-type battles in the previous films, but to do that here would change the whole point of the movie. For me, the best scene in PC was where Peter & Susan come to understand they're leaving Narnia for the last time.
"what they add is far less important than what they take out."
Exactly Right!
Without the key scenes of spiritual change, Eustace's dragon skin(sin) shed by Aslan, Lucy confronted by Aslan over jelousy, King Caspian being humbled by Aslan, etc, would we truly have reason to watch it?
Cool.
Interesting. I don't really like the sound of it, but I'll reserve judgment until I see the film.
Spoilers!!!! ARGH!! must stay away from spoilers!! Ohhh, this is a lot harder than it was with PC!!!
Now I REALLY can't wait for VDT!!! I could'nt wait before, but I think it just got worse!!!
Oh man, PLEASE tell me they didn't change them TO much!!! Don't answer that.
I'd better stop ranting and get out of here before I change my mind about not reading spoilers!!!