‘Dawn Treader’ Grosses $10.5m Over New Years Weekend

Posted January 3, 2011 7:01 pm by Glumpuddle

Happy 2011! The Voyage of the Dawn Treader grossed an estimated $10.5m over the holiday weekend. Box Office Mojo writes:

[Gulliver’s Travels] remained in eighth place and couldn’t top its 20th Century Fox stable mate The Chronicles of Narnia: The Voyage of the Dawn Treader, which drew $10.3 million in its fourth weekend. With $86.9 million in 24 days, Voyage lost more ground to [Wardrobe] but it gained some on [Caspian].

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The film has now grossed $86.9m domestically. Its worldwide total is up to $297.1m.

Still no word on another Narnia film being green-lit, but keep checking back!

168 Comments For This Story

  • Braden Woodburn says:

    Whoa, the news with this movie and it’s box office keeps getting better on every update! I am so in love with that fact! So since it is in the $300 million range, I can so see "The Silver Chair is a go!" update!! Man I would probably faint if that happens! Such exciting news yay!

  • Queen Elizabeth says:

    We have to have Silver Chair! Hard-core fight scenes await!

    • Mei-Lin Po says:

      If Dawn Treader has more than drawn level with Prince Caspian already, how can they possibly even consider not making Silver Chair???

      • Anhun says:

        But it hasn’t drawn level. Overseas it’s doing better than PC, but in America it’s falling far short.

    • Mei-Lin Po says:

      And what is this nonsense about skipping SC and doing Magician’s Nephew first? Magician’s Nephew could always easily be made later, but there is only so long that Will Poulter would be able to reprise Eustace, before he grows up and outgrows the role.

    • Rafael says:

      Now it is almost 100 m domestic and 337 worldwide.
      It can get over 400 m overall πŸ™‚

      • Duffleglum says:

        I had huge doubts that would happen, but God has blessed this movie profoundly!!

        Here’s hoping for a $400+ million grand total!!

  • Thyservant says:

    I have a feeling that if SC is to be made, true to the book, the production budget won’t be big, at least less than VDT. BTW, is the idea of the northern land of Narnia from the highland of Scotland?

    • Anhun says:

      If you’re asking about Lewis’ intentions, I have no idea. But if you’re putting out a suggestion, I think that’s brilliant! Check it out:

      http://www.1adventure.com/archives/000120.html

      • Thyservant says:

        Well, I was actually asking and… Enjoying the picture! It’s a suggestion now… LOL

      • Thyservant says:

        I also think that the landscape in BBC’s SC is great. With technology now, you just need to add more high mountains and make it dimmer.

      • Not Of This World says:

        I can totally picture that as Etinsmore!

      • HighQueenofNarnia says:

        My first reaction was "That looks just like a scene from SC!!" πŸ™‚ But, on further consideration, it’s almost too pretty for Ettinsmoor; I see it more as Northern Narnia, before you reach the river Shribble.
        Or maybe that is the river Shribble, or one of its tributaries.

      • Non-Negotiable Comment says:

        That looks incredible. It’s very Puddleglum-ish–dark grey skies for pessimism, contrasted with the bright green vegetation for hope and faith. I could see that.

      • elanor says:

        How amazing! Why do people go to New Zealand?

        I think Ettinsmoors should have that kind of desolate beauty. The fun contrast about SC compared to the other books is that you can imagine the scenery in the North being so starkly different from the fairy-tale-like beauty of Narnia. It matches gloomy Puddleglum, man-eating giants, a dark, mysterious Underworld, and Rilian and his strange enchantment.

      • Anhun says:

        I LOVE the natural green-and-grey palette. One of my favorite places on the planet is Guilin. You can get lost in the somber beauty of it (In my case, I quite literally got lost, but that’s another story, lol).

        http://www.travelpod.com/travel-photo/exploreamerica/17/1214960940/guilin-countryside-tour-91.jpg/tpod.html

      • Warrior 4 Jesus says:

        Anhun, that Scottish landscape is beautiful, totally what I imagined when I read the book.

    • Crazface says:

      I think I read somewhere that the inspiration for Ettinsmoor were the Mountains of Mourne in Northan Ireland.

  • ajSilver X says:

    Well. Narnia is a wonderfull movie. If Silver Chair will be relsead, I suggest it should be earlier than 2013 and it the remaining books: Magicians Nephew, Horse and His Boy and of course the Last Battle should be a motion picture too. Narnia will be a more better movie if the film and the book will be really related to each other. we must see the following movies in the near future. FOR NARNIA! FOR ASLAN!

  • Reepicheep says:

    So far, the franchise has made about $1.5 billion. If Fox continues, say on average they make about $350 million each, that’s still about $3 billion and it would be one of the biggest franchises of all time, which is a pretty big incentive for Fox to make the rest of them. Here’s what I think the plan should be for the rest of them.
    – Silver Chair gets released in November 2012, because 2013 is too long a wait, Will Poulter still needs to be Eustace and if it comes in December, it will be smashed at the box office by The Hobbit. Silver Chair has a good chance of better box office success than the Dawn Treader because it is the market for such a story.
    – Horse and his Boy and Magician’s Nephew are filmed together. This will save Fox a lot of time making these movies. MN comes in November 2014 and HBB comes a year later. November 2014 is good so that it won’t compete with Avatar 2. HBB should be made after MN so that audiences are introduced to the Calormenes in time for The Last Battle, and so the Pevensies can get time to grow up.
    – The Last Battle gets released in December 2017. This should be a box office king because it will be last in the series. Whether it should be in two parts, I don’t know. The second part can come in mid 2018. Comment as to whether The Last Battle could be done in two parts.

    • Anhun says:

      1. "one of the biggest franchises of all time, which is a big incentive . . ." A large gross is only an incentive if it’s in proportion to the cost.

      2. "This will save Fox a lot of time . . ." If Fox cared about saving time, they would have started pre-production on Silver Chair already.

      3. "This should be box office king . . ." You seem to be living in the same La-La Land as Disney was when they spent 400 million on Prince Caspian. Chronicles of Narnia is not a baffo-popular series. It’s a series with one baffo-popular book. There is no overarching plot to tie all of the books together, so people won’t be waiting on the edge of their seats to see what happens to their characters. Add to that the fact that the last 3 books are more like addenda to the series than part of it. There is no reason to believe that LB will be particularly successful.

      • Tribunal says:

        It will also have to face off against major competition. If they release a new Narnia film every two years or so during the Christmas season.

        The Hobbit is slated for December 2012 and its sequel the following year in the same month. Then in December 2014 comes Avatar 2 and in 2015 Avatar 3.

    • Cross Trainer says:

      I like your optimism, cause it’s all starting to look like a good possibility. Don’t pay too much attention to the negative Marsh-wiggles.

    • I voted... says:

      I agree, very positive attitude–but Colormenes have been introduced !
      I am surprised I have not read any comments on this yet. I was so impressed ! The slave traders in VDT had slightly darker skin, curled mustached, long robes, turbans, and scimitars ! I thought, Wow, they introduced Calormenes !

      • Reepicheep says:

        To oppose your comments
        1: I said presuming each one makes $350 million, which seems to be the average of the last two movies. I only said The Last Battle would be big because it’s a finale. I never said it would be bigger than LWW.
        2: Fox would want to see how the Dawn Treader plays out before they continue with these plans.
        3: November is a good time for the next few Narnia movies so it can get a month’s head start against major competition.
        4: Viewers wouldn’t know enough about Calormenes just from seeing the Dawn Treader. They are only mentioned when they are looking at the map and only subtly depicted through the slave traders so HBB would look a lot more in depth than Dawn Treader.
        5: I still never got anything back about the Last Battle being in two parts.
        6: Who said $400 million needed to be spent per Narnia film.

      • Anhun says:

        1. Did I say anything about LWW? You said that it would be "box office king" because it’s a finale. That is the point I was contesting. I think it’s doubtful that LB will be a success, let alone box office king. If it is, it will be a function of two variables: How well they make it, and how well they market it. The mere fact that it’s a finale won’t help LB, when you consider that it has no plot connection to the rest of the books, and the series as a whole isn’t all that popular.

        2. Um . . . My point exactly. Fox is not going to invest in any future Narnia film until they gauge whether or not the series still has life in it by observing the previous film’s earnings. They certainly wouldn’t invest all of that money in a struggling franchise by filming two installments at once.

        3. November is extremely risky for this series. The movie might lose a lot of theatres before the holidays come around, so that it receives little or no benefit from the holiday bump.

        6. I didn’t say you thought they would earn back 400 million, I was saying that your LB automatic dominance theory was just as unrealistic as that.

      • I voted... says:

        That’s right, Calormenes ! WOOHOO !!

    • Ionic Bonding Rocks says:

      That’s an interesting idea, the Last Battle coming out in two parts. But I reckon it would be a very bad idea to do so.
      Firstly, everyone would be comparing it to Harry Potter, which is already done too much for my liking. The truth is that Narnia isn’t Harry Potter, in fact, it’s completely different. Narnia shouldn’t try to be Harry Potter, it should just be Narnia. If it were to have two parts to the last movie, movie critics everywhere would be claiming that Narnia was copying HP. Thing is, many people who have not read the books do not know they were written 50 years before HP. They will think Narnia is a cheap take-off, which is not what we want.
      Secondly, and most importantly, I really can’t see how LB would be split into two parts. To me, there aren’t two parts of a story, there is one whole story, so why try to split it up? It’s not like it’s a long book either, so there’s really no reason to split it up. There are no really suspenseful moments in the middle of the book where the filmmakers could end the film so that the audience would want to see it again, and I am fearful that if they tried to split the movie into two parts then many people would lose interest in the last part.
      I see where you’re coming from (two movies make more money than one?), but I believe that to keep with the spirit of Narnia that LB should just be one movie.

      • Anhun says:

        Now that I think about it, VDT might have benefited from being made in multiple parts. They could have made the conflict with the slave traders the central plot of the first one, with Gumpas as the arch-villain.

      • Ionic Bonding Rocks says:

        VDT certainly could have benefitted from being split into two parts- its episodic nature would have complimented that decision very well. However, LB is nothing like VDT; it has a beginning, complication, climax and resolution. It would not do well to be split into two.
        Imagine how much better VDT could have been if it was split into two, though! They could have included all the islands and gone into more detail for everything without having to rush through everything so much. Man, Anhun, sometimes you have really good ideas!

      • Anhun says:

        No, I wasn’t arguing against your position on LB, just going off on a tangent. When I read your list of all of the qualities that would make LB ideal for a single installment, I realized that VDT had none of those qualities.

      • Ionic Bonding Rocks says:

        Yeah, I knew you weren’t arguing against my LB opinions, I was just reinstating my point so that the conversation had some *remote* relation to the original topic. πŸ˜€
        As I think about it more, I begin to wish the filmmakers /had/ made VDT in two installments. If they had done that, perhaps they could have dropped that whole unoriginal ‘evil mist’ plot and made something a bit more believable. Perhaps the sea serpent could be the main enemy in the second half of the film, between the crew of the DT and Ramandu’s Island? Once that was out of the way, the end of the movie could be focussed on the ‘discovery’ aspect, and they could focus on the spiritual climax, which is where Aslan comforts the Pevensies by telling them he lives in their world too by a different name, and that they must learn to know him by that name. Man, I love that part! πŸ˜€

      • Anhun says:

        Like your idea for part 2. πŸ™‚ Here’s my proposed plot for the first part CoN: Dragon Island (calling it Pt1 would seem too HPish).

        Everything starts out like in the movie. Then they arrive on Felimath, and things progress like they did in the book. Caspian, Bern et al. free the kids in a fight like they did in the movie. He turns the slave traders in to Gumpas, who is shocked! shocked! to hear that slave trading is going on around here. Caspian thinks all is well, so the gang sail off from Bernstead.

        They arrive on Dragon Island. I liked the idea of making Deathwater and Dragon Island the same in the movie. Eustace goes and finds the dragon treasure while the rest go down to the death waters. Other than that, the episodes unfold like in the book, except Eustace show his name in the burning rocks. Now, everyone is sorry for Eustace, so they decide to double back to Lone Islands to find a magus or whoever one goes to to get undragoned.

        They return to Bernstead, Bern’s wife tells them that Gumpas is in league with the slavers, that they plan to ambush Caspian, and that Bern is in prison for his loyalty. Caspian then takes on Gumpas’ men in a ruse like in the book. He confronts Gumpas in his office in that memorable scene. He frees Bern and makes him Governor.

        They find a magus in the town, but he tells a tearful Dragon-Eustace that nothing can be done, "Only Aslan himself could free you from this curse."

        Things end with Dawn Treader and Dragon sailing off into the sunset.

      • Ionic Bonding Rocks says:

        Sounds good. A friend of mine had this fantastic idea for the beginning of the movie (before it came out) that one of the Pevensies- probably Edmund, as he has less patience with Eustace- narrates the beginning: "There was a boy called Eustace Clarence Scrubb, and he almost deserved it." etc. I thought that was a great idea, because it’s humourously introducing the Pevensies’ situation the same way the book does. Just a thought…
        So for CoN: World’s End (or something like that, I don’t know, it sounds more like an apocalypse movie if that’s its title) I reckon that Eustace should get changed back to human form /before/ they confront the sea serpent, maybe on Magician’s Island. It would be more exciting anyway, if there was no huge dragon to help them. Eustace can then show how much he has changed in the period he was a dragon by being willing to help (and breaking Caspian’s best sword… he he…). Dark Island should stay how it was in the book, where the albatros/Aslan guides the crew with Rhoop out.
        Wow, I just realised how carried away I got there… I’m acting as if this movie is actually going to get made. *sigh* My bad. Oh well, we can always dream! Maybe Peter Jackson will one day stumble upon this thread and decide ‘I have to make a movie out of this!’
        Ha ha just kidding, but it would be awesome if in 10 or 20 years time he decided to make another set of Narnia movies!

      • Anhun says:

        I’m thinking the second installment could be called Voyage of the Dawn Treader, like the book. Hey, there’s no harm in fantasizing. I loved the movie for what it was, an appetizer sampling of the book’s depth and brilliance, but it would have been nice if they had the screen time to explore the different islands (and their associated themes) in depth.

      • Ionic Bonding Rocks says:

        That’s a good way of putting it. πŸ˜€ I don’t think that anything on screen would ever quite be able to tell the story of the Voyage of the Dawn Treader as well as my favourite book does, but it gives us a nice little taste that captures the heart of it, which is a lot better than what I could say of PC. Saying that, it’s nice to dream of a near-perfect adaptation that will come out some time in the far-ish future. πŸ˜‰

      • Reepicheep says:

        Forget what i said about LB’s success, the entire story will have been done and therefore the whole story will be complete, something which has bogged the series’ success. It is an advantage that Potter and Rings had over Narnia to begin with, and when LB comes, they wouldn’t need to worry.

  • Not Of This World says:

    Let’s pass the 400 mark! I really want to see these movies made. All of them.

    • Jess Porlock says:

      Why people think The Last Battle is just one of the last three books is beyond me. It won the presitgious Carnegie prize in 56 when it was first published and it remains, for me, the finest dramatisation of the book of revelation ever written. The pn;y question regarding it is whether anyone has the guts to film it with all the issues it addresses. It is far more significant than any of the others.

      • Cross Trainer says:

        I would think–I would hope, that the release of "Book of Eli" and "The Passion of the Christ" shows some guts in the industry. But yeah, Last Battle would be taking it where it’s never been.

      • High Queene Shelly Belly says:

        it’s so great it actually made me cry, no book has ever done that before

      • Non-Negotiable Comment says:

        I absolutely DREAD the thought of ‘The Last Battle’ in the hands of the current producers. It would not even be remotely recognizable after they water it down for the PG-rating, and to placate misguided parents. Can you imagine what they’d do to it? Susan not only would make it into the Real Narnia with everyone else, she’d probably single-handedly take out the entire Calormene army with her bow along the way. Or, they’d spend a zillion dollars on a spectacular CGI train wreck, only to have everyone walk away from it, unscathed, A-Team-style.

        "Wow, Ed! That was a close one!"
        "I’ll say! Has anyone seen my torch?"
        "I think it rolled under the White Witch."

        Oh, to see a faithful adaptation of that book…

      • High Queene Shelly Belly says:

        agreed, non, I dream of a production team that is brave enough to keep to the story, deepen the subtext, and blow our minds with the thrilling spiritual intensity of the original plots. Instead we get watered down, twisted, PC mishmashes. it’s baffling. Taking superior material and trading it out for inferior dishwater, in the name of updating. If you look at the grosses, you can deduce this is not what the audience wants to see, it’s what the producers are foolishly , incorrectly projecting that’s what we will want. I am totally grateful for the new movies, but I really wish they would stop tampering with a classic. And i understand about adapting to cinema and am not against that where it is needed, the problem is they are changing things where they are not needed. Narnia is not a property that needs updating with more headbashing and dumbing down, it should stay intelligent and deep. It needs to stay heartfelt and character driven.

      • Ionic Bonding Rocks says:

        NNC, that made me laugh so hard… but it’s kind of worrying because it’s utterly ridiculous but scarily accurate. As for my concerns, I’m seriously worrried that they’ll turn Jill into another ‘warrior princess’ with an unlimited supply of mascara. Or they’ll have a huge battle between Susan and Lilliandil when Susan gets to the new Narnia, where she shouldn’t be anyway. *shudders*
        Yes, as JP said, the filmmakers will definitely need guts if they are going to do the Last Battle any justice. I’m not saying there needs to be blood and guts everywhere (Aslan forbid!), and it is definitely possible to do a train crash scene without being gory (they’re all sitting on the train, then they’re wondering why another train is coming towards them, then there’s a jolt and it goes black?). As long as the kids realise that it doesn’t matter the Pevensies died, because it meant they could spend eternity in Narnia with no more battles and everything, it wouldn’t be too bad.
        And if they do LB, they HAVE to keep in all the symbolism, no matter how weird they reckon the audience will think it will be.

      • Not Of This World says:

        Listen to this: In the train sceen, the train is going, then it starts to giggle, then it flips over. (The camera is pointed toward the people on the platform) It then shows the people on the platform or where ever they are. Then the train is falling toward them. (Right now the camera is on the platform, facing up to the falling train) Then right before it falls on them, the kids are taken into Narnia.

        What do you think? πŸ™‚

      • Not Of This World says:

        I ment "jiggle: not "giggle" ! whoops! LOL

      • Anhun says:

        @Not of this World: lol on the "giggling." It could be a crossover concept: Narnia kids killed by Thomas the Tank Engine!

      • Not Of This World says:

        LOL Ha HA! Very funny

      • High Queene Shelly Belly says:

        I would film susan in bed having a terrible dream, nightmare images swirl in front of her , then a loud crash makes her bolt upright in bed, shaking and sweating. she then gets a phone call with the terrible news.

    • Cross Trainer says:

      That was, by far, the funniest thing I’ve read up here. Because they would do exactly that; but it’s improper teaching kids about death and all. It’s not something they should be exposed to until they’re old enough to die. (sarc.) So keep that in mind.

  • Queen Elizabeth says:

    I think the Silver Chair would be a fabulous action/magical film. I don’t know if people would agree with me but I think Silver chair could be a PG-13 if they stress the action. But I am totally fine with the PG status, I love family movies, and knowing my little cousins could go see it would make me happy.

    Love Live Narnia! πŸ™‚
    and check out my blog at… http://thegirltheblogandthepainting.blogspot.com/

    • Anhun says:

      If I understand correctly (which I might not in this case) one of the terms of the agreement between the C.S. Lewis Estate and Walden is that all movies must be PG or less.

      • narnian21 says:

        To me it seems like they are gonna have a hard time with LB

      • Queen Elizabeth says:

        I didn’t mean to "Rebel" when I said that I thought the PG-13 idea could work. But I forgot that they were all going to be pg πŸ™‚ I ack-chelly knew that lol πŸ™‚ Sorry

      • Not Of This World says:

        I thought that too, Anhun. I knew there was some sort of agreement that it had to be PG. If you guys remember in PC, they had the Telmarines wear masks in the battle so it could get a PG rating.

      • Queen Elizabeth says:

        How would the Telmarines wearing masks make it PG. Some people thought the masks made them scarier. And they let a lot of things slide into the PG catagory these days.

      • jag says:

        Prince Caspian was rated M15+ here in Australia…

      • Anhun says:

        @jag: What does that mean? You can’t see it unless your 15, or you need a parent?

      • Not Of This World says:

        They said in the PC commentary (I think. I might have heard in an interview somewhere else) that in LLW, the war sceen didn’t get them a PG-13 becuase it was like they were fighting animals, and that’s not to scary for children. But when they fight the Telmarines, those are men, so then it is too scary for children. Giving them masks made them seem more like robots then men. It dosen’t really make sence to me either.

      • High Queene Shelly Belly says:

        it makes the killing more impersonal and less likely to feel sorry for them as a person, hence less upsetting.

      • High Queene Shelly Belly says:

        or maybe that is a cover story because it was easier to computer replicate masked men, and they needed lots of them.

  • Bethany Weathers says:

    It’s the little engine that could.

  • Anhun says:

    VDT’s daily take has dipped back below PC’s at the same point in it’s run. πŸ™

    • Xande says:

      I saw that too. I wonder if today is just an isolate "incident". Note that the week was pretty bad for other movies also (VDT actually performed better than Yogi Bear and tangled).

      • Anhun says:

        Now that the holidays are over, all of the family-friendly films are down, during school days at least. We’ll see if this trend holds on the weekend. Hopefully not.

        At this point in PC’s trajectory, school was already out. I suspect that, from here on in, VDT will do better than PC on weekends, but worse on week days.

      • Xande says:

        That was precisely my thought about it. Indeed all family films did very poorly today, at the level of movies like black swan, the fighter, etc… Hopefully, it will pick up some stamina this weekend. I am hoping it will reach the 100mil mark soon (maybe next week). After that, I don’t expect much more (115mil might be too much of an optimistic stretch). I only hope that, together with foreign profit, it is enough for the producers to continue the franchise.

    • Kristine says:

      Yes I saw that too. I was pretty surprised at how much it has dropped since mon. I thought it would make close to a million per day this week, but I can see that the adult films are doing better now. The tourist topped vdt for the first time today. I guess we will have to wait for the weekend. I hope it can pull in at lest 4 mil.

    • Anhun says:

      Glum news on the box-office front. The trend from this week has continued into the weekend. VDT has basically fallen off the grid, to 11th place. While it is performing better than Caspian at this point, it dropped even more than LWW. πŸ™

      • Kristine says:

        I was sad to see that as well. I was hoping it would pick up on the weekend but it looks like families aren’t going to the movies right now. It is all the adult films doing well, even the tourist. I just hope it can tick around for the mlk holiday in the us. Maybe it can pick up a bit then. It should still make a 100mil, but not much beyond that. It is rally up to the overseas total again to hopefully convince fox to do another one. Also, they did say vdt will be the first fox film since avatar to cross 100mil. Considering how poor the initial debut was, that is still quite a feat. I just wish it had made 120mil or something closer to pc to ensure we would get sc.

  • regian says:

    I saw the movie last Sunday and it was great! I brought my husband and 4 grown-up kids (ages 21-26), who all were reluctant to come. But since I rarely go out to the movies (just LoTR and Narnia recently), they treated me to this one. They were not disappointed. A couple of them were even teary (sniffling) by the end of the movie. My hubby kept commenting on how he loved the music score. Also, I noticed how the people lingered at the end either looking at the credits or listening to There’s a Place for Us. I probably will watch it again just one more time then buy the blu-ray/dvd when it comes out.

    Sorry if I posted in the wrong thread.. new here.

    The Voyage didn’t disappoint….

    • Anhun says:

      GET OUT!!!! . . . just kidding
      Well, you’re talking about how you contributed to the gross, so it fits perfectly in a conversation about Dawn Treader’s weekend gross. πŸ™‚

      I was crying at the end, too. The look on Lucy’s face was heart-wrenching. I can’t wait to get this on DVD.

    • Not Of This World says:

      Welcome! By the way, what did you mean by LoTR? Just wondering πŸ™‚

      • Anhun says:

        Holy Moses you’re young! You don’t know LotR stands for Lord of the Rings?

        [Anhun toddles off to go shoot herself]

      • Not Of This World says:

        Ohh. Is the Lord of the Rings Christian based too (I mean, like the way Narnia is)? I’ve have wanted to see that and Indiana Jones for a long time.

      • Anhun says:

        Not really.

      • Not Of This World says:

        Whats the Lord of the Rings about?

      • Gem says:

        Tolkein, the guy who wrote the LOTR books, was Catholic, so there isn’t really a sound Christian emphasis obviously like Narnia, but there are allegories and other things that make it feel a bit like it is Christian.
        Oh wow, you will have to read it for yourself to answer that question. Basically, in a few sentences, it is about a creature called a hobbit who is given an evil Ring that was made by the evil Lord Sauron, whose life and power basically depends on the Ring. The hobbit then goes on a journey to destroy the Ring and ultimately end Sauron. You really should read the books, they are some of the most amazing and brillant pieces of work. I recommend reading The Hobbit before the LOTR, though: The Hobbit is basically a sort of prequel to LOTR and it helps introduce you to the world of LOTR before you read that series. And DON"T go and see the movies BEFORE you read the books…I partially did that and rather wish I hadn’t now. But DO see the movies AFTER you read the books, they are stunning.

      • Not Of This World says:

        Okay! Thanks!

      • High Queene Shelly Belly says:

        @Gem, sorry, but you have been mislead , catholics ARE christian, they are the ORIGINAL CHRISTIANS that were around for 1500 years before luther started changing doctrines and throwing books out of the bible. that is why the book prince caspian refers to the kids being gone so long. do not listen to wild distortions of catholicism, that is not what the catholic church actually teaches. www. catholic.com refutes the misstatements you have been taught.

      • Anhun says:

        Shelly, don’t. Gem has a history of flaunting her ignorance. She doesn’t have to be talking about Catholics. Give her a topic, any topic. I don’t talk to her when she behaves that way, and I would caution you against engaging her as well. You’re "feeding the troll" as they say.

      • High Queene Shelly Belly says:

        lol, thank you, anhun.

      • Gem says:

        Shelly, there are two ways to be "Catholic". True Catholics, the ones you are probably reffering to, are not Christian, because they believe that you have to perform acts or do a certain amount of good to get into heaven, that leading a good life to please the Trinity is your salvation. Christians believe that God sent his Son Jesus Christ to take away the sins of the world so that us humans could believe in Him and live an eternal life of love instead of pain. Christians believe this is the way you get into heaven, not by good deeds. Now there are some Catholics who follow the traditions to some extent of the Catholic church and therefore call themselves Catholic, but they believe in salvation the way Christians do. I’m not an expert on this stuff and certainly not Catholicism, but I do have some very long-time close friends who are Catholic and some other close friends who are born-again Catholics. And seriously, come on! Of course a website is going to try to make itself sound good. But trust me, Catholics are NOT the same things as Christians.
        Ummm…Anhun, I really don’t feel like commenting back on someone who seems to have the maturity of a kindergartener, but when you write stuff like you did you just kind of make yourself look bad. And I’m sorry if you think I’ve been ignorant in the past, I try to get my facts straight, but sometimes-because, duh, I’m human- I get things wrong. But more likely than not, you were just mad about something I said because my opinion was different from yours and therefore, you saw me as ignorant.

      • Not Of This World says:

        I’m not going to say my thoughts on this matter, but I will say that Shelly and Gem, your points are very interesting and very good. This is one of the most interesting conversations I’ve ever seen on NarniaWeb! πŸ™‚

      • Gem says:

        Well, thank you, Not of This World, I appreciate that. And I think you are wise to not say your thoughts, I (and everyone else) should probably be careful about what we say around Anhun or she’ll go into a temper tantrum about something someone said that she doesn’t like, OR, something she didn’t know. Anyway, hope you like LOTR! It is really is a great story.

      • Anhun says:

        @Not of this World: Interesting? Well, whatever floats your boat. I thought Gem’s first comment was bigoted and rude, calculated to offend people. Her second comment was utter nonsense. I attended a Catholic high school for 2 years, and had to study the catechism. The Catholic church teaches that salvation comes through faith in God. You don’t earn salvation through good works, like earning points in a video game. There may be some sects of Christianity that preach the good works game, but Catholicism isn’t one of them.

      • Not Of This World says:

        I had never really thought of Chatholics and if they were Christian or if they were, as you might say, on their own. And I thought both Gem and Shelly’s points were very good and convincing. That is why I think the conversation is interesting. And I didn’t think Gem’s comments were rude or nonsence.

      • Gem says:

        Again, thank you, Not of This World. Anhun, YOU are not people. YOU are only one person, and I’m sorry you don’t agree with me, but do you really think I care about offending you? No, I don’t even KNOW you. And I am also sorry that you have been taught that about Catholicism, and, more importantly, you BELIEVE it. And parting word- Catholicism is NOT the same as Christianity, their doctrines, ideas, beliefs, and core values are completely different. I don’t know WHY someone would think they are one and the same.

    • High Queene Shelly Belly says:

      hello guys, yes, i love these discussions! @ gem, just because i like you : ) , i dug this up: catechism of the catholic church: 617:1992- "justification has been merited for us BY THE PASSION OF CHRIST who offered himself on the cross as a living victim". that’s the ACTUAL official position. the thing about works is" work out your salvation with fear and trembling" –
      ‘is distorted by ant-i catholics insinuating catholics believe you earn salvation by works. the AcTUAL position is faith will RESULT in works . the catechism is available online at ewtn.com or catholic.com -the catholic apologetics site with the official teachings. I encourage anyone in another denomination to look up the actual catholic position instead of believing anti catholic sources. They are distorting( some innocently) what catholics actually believe and innocent persons end up thinking it’s actually true that it’s the real catholic position. satan wants to keep believers separated and quarreling amongst ourselves to weaken us as a group and make us easier to attack. We are ONE body, the body of christ!

      • Gem says:

        Exscuse me if I did not make this clear before, I was comparing the Catholic beliefs to Protestant beliefs. Both religions have Christ as their center. But I just went online and looked up extensively the beliefs of the Catholic Church to make sure my argument was legit, and it is. The whole beliefs of Catholics is that you have to purify your soul in order to get to heaven—Purgatory, praying to people other than God…it all is for the purifying of their soulds so they are "clean enough", if good enough isn’t the right way to put it, to get into heaven. That’s their whole salvation belief, that you "earn your right to heaven", or you have to believe or do certain things to "get into heaven", like just accepting God and His free gift of Love isn’t enough. I am not bad mouthing Catholics, they believe what they want ot, but I know Catholics and they have said that this is their belief. I am deciding to go only on what I have been told myself from people who are actually part of the Catholic Church themselves.

      • High Queene Shelly Belly says:

        the protestant argument confuses * justification* and *santification*. JUSTIFICATION means jesus paid the penalty for the sins of humanity, which reopened the gates of heaven to us. (those God fearing people who had died before the crucifixion were in "abraham’s bosom"- a place of rest outsside heaven until christ came and ushered them into heaven) . SANTIFICATION is the cleansing of our souls- a purifying . that occurs after death.
        this was not a new doctrine, the jews have always prayed for their dead- so it was obviously revealed to them by
        God to do so. You don’t have to pray for someone who is already in heaven to be saved, and praying for someone in hell CAN"T save them. so logically there is a place where your prayers take effect. The old testament shows the jews praying for their dead relatives to be saved, and it was that way for four thousand years until christ came-it is not a catholic invention. If you want to do research on what the catholic position is, you have to go to the official catholic church documents. protestants have a vested interest in twisting catholic doctrine, it’s the way to keep you anti-catholic and in THEIR church. it’s very bizarre what some denominations teach that the catholic church says, when it is not even close to actual catholic doctrine- they confuse issues and sometimes outright lie. That’s why i’s good to go to an actual apologist like catholic answers group, they take questions from protestants who would like the catholic position explained more clearly. catholics DO NOT : worship saints (they are just people we know are in heaven and they are just our brothers and sisters in christ) catholics DO NOT worship the virgin mary- she is just a human being we honor profusely for facing the death penalty by stoning for pregnancy out of wedlock to bring us jesus. those are just two examples of misunderstandings that keep being passed around. you can even call catholic answers during their "for non catholics only" radio show once a month and they explain where non catholics have been confused. It’s usually Dr. Scott Hahn or another former hard core protestant answering the questions because they know where the caller is coming from. Try reading "Surprised by Truth" his book filled with protestants stories about the things they had been errantly taught about catholicsim. Most average catholics do not know how to explain the church as expertly as a professional apologist.

      • High Queene Shelly Belly says:

        PS – even CS Lewis believed in a purgatory state- as he had used logic to come to that conclusion- even though that was not his church’s (anglican) official position.

      • High Queene Shelly Belly says:

        http://www.catholic.com/library/Grace_What_It_Is_.asp scroll down halfway to "Justification and Sanctification" sorry i don’t know how to make links

      • High Queene Shelly Belly says:

        groovy! it made the link itself! narnian magic! hail aslan!

      • Kristine says:

        Thanks for all that info. It is amazing how much is misunderstood about the catholic religion. I appreciator all the clarification, and it is great that we all love the story of narnia!

      • High Queene Shelly Belly says:

        thank you kristine, it’s hard to clear up misunderstandings when someone in error gets there first, it’s natural to let that source infiltrate your mind, then have a resistance to the correct source if it comes along after. so much has been twisted and many protastants of today have only heard disinformation from their organization that has been passed down for 500 years. it’s hard to get through to people of today who sincerely have anticatholic beliefs that there are innacurracies and distortions they are being fed. it is only logical when you hear something questionable not to just swallow t hook line and sinker but to go to the original source, such as catholic.com, the catholic tv network ewtn.com, a great catholic bookstore tan.com (TAN books has n awesome book calledTHIS IS THE FAITH that will spell it out like you,ve never seen before. ) I’ve noticed that fundamentalism and evangelicalism especially have many misunderstandings about catholicism embedded in them.and it’s usually a twisting of terms so you try to discuss something, you go around in circles, and come to find out you have different definitions for the same word or idea. so of course you keep going around in circles. CS Lewis had been fed anti catholic innacuraceis when he was young, so couldn’t go catholic although he developed into an anglican with many catholic beleifs. As you can see with Gem, she’s been fed distortions first, and it’s hard to break through now and say they were wrong in the first place, don’t believe those sources. they aren’t even the correct positions.

      • Gem says:

        I honestly am surprised that you would trust a website for information about a religion. Catholics DO pray to the Virgin Mary and to the apostle Peter and other people, they believe that they are saints and therefore are closer to God, so if they pray to them their prayers will be told to God by these "saints". I have been in the very presence of Catholics as they pray to their Mother Mary. I am sorry, but you can’t escape the fundamental beliefs of a religion, and that’s exactly what you are trying to do. Catholics also believe that in order for your sins to be forgiven by God, you have to tell them to a priest who will tell them to God. I am not bashing Catholicism, I am just telling the facts. This is what they believe in, and have for centuries, and it can’t be changed. I am very close to some Catholic friends of mine and they are amazing people, and because I have been around them so much I have heard and seen what they believe. I don’t care if you have a different opinion, that’s totally fine, but you are not going to change mine, because I believe what I believe and that can’t be changed. But, seeing as we are both not Catholic, ((actually, are you? I don’t think you are, but you are very defensive of Catholicism)) I think we should just leave this alone. I know what you think and you know what I think, but who knows, one of us may be right while the other is wrong, or we both may be right, or we both may be wrong. I do enjoy conversations like these, even if I don’t agree with you and personally think that you have been rather blinded and don’t know what you’re saying. It is nice to get another person’s viewpoint on something. I just don’t agree with you because you are defending a religion that I think holds people in a unseen bondage and holds God over them like a menacing threatening being that will eat you alive if you don’t obey Him. Well, I am not that against Catholicism, I just don’t agree with some of it’s teaching. Which is fine! It’s a free country and it’s my opinion.

      • High Queene Shelly Belly says:

        @Gem, the websites I am referring to are not just joe schmoe’s home website- they are official catholic websites with the actual doctrines of the catholic church, written by professional fulltime apologists with doctorates . If you check the link you will see they are not private, personal opinions. That is what you are gettting from your sources, because you are repeating common misstatements. I am catholic and well versed in the official doctrine. My husband was a fundamentalist and that is how I can spot anti-catholic disinformation a mile off. What you have written in your last post is NOT CATHOLIC DOCTRINE, BUT DISINFORMATION. It is misunderstood and the catholic postitions are totally distorted. You are welcome to hold your opinions, but they are not the true postitions of the church. the Catechism of the catholic church is the actual book of the doctrines and explains what you are misunderstanding. Also, the writings of the christians of the first 3 centuries after christ is called the Early Church Fathers and they recorded what happened in those days. these sources will tell you what christianity at the time of christ was like by actual witnesses who were there. PS you dont HAVE to talk to mary or saints if you dont care to,it is not a requirement, and confession to a priest was established by Christ and is right in the bible ( christ to apostles: " whose sins you forgive, they are forgiven , whose sins you retain, they are retained)" what Christ himself has established as a sacrament, let no MAN put asunder–

      • Gem says:

        I am deciding to believe that you are a born-again Catholic, because I have friends who are not and they do believe in what I have said they do. Otherwise I would not have posted it, I am not trying to look ignorant or like a hypocrite. But obviously you are from a more modern, more progressive way of believing in Catholicism, which is fine, I am not calling you not a Catholic, I am just saying you probably wouldn’t agree with all of the doctrines of the original Catholic church if you knew what they were. You are welcome to your beliefs, but I’ve got to say though, you seem a bit wishy-washy in your opinions, for example, it seemed to me that you first said that Catholics do not pray to the Virgin Mary or other people they regard as saints, and then you said that you can but don’t have too, that it is not required…okay…please, I am not bashing your religion or trying to make it look bad, all the Catholics I have known have been dedicated to God and their families and incredibly dear people. But Catholics also are known for their uncertainty in their own religion, and unfortunately some of the things you have said have confirmed that for me.

      • Gem says:

        And might I add, I find your remark on Jesus saying it is right to confess your sins to a priest as completely hypocritical. That belief makes it look like as humans we are not holy enough to go to God and personally repent and talk to Him. No, we really aren’t for all we do and have done, but even still God wants us to be close to Him and have a personal relationship with Him, not feel like we aren’t good enough to go to Him ourselves and ask for forgiveness, that instead we have to go to a person who will ask our forgiveness for us. And what makes the priest holy enough himself to ask forgiveness on the behalf of others? I mean, if regular people don’t have the right to repent to God personally, why would a priest have the right? Do you believe that God has put spiritual figures in charge of what we each believe of God and our own spirituality to be a bridge, if you will, between us and God? God’s Son Jesus is our bridge, that is the very base of Christian religion, and to say what you are saying, that Jesus intended for another to repent to God on behalf of us because we are not worthy, is completely boggling to me if you claim to have a personal relationship with God. We must all guide our own spiritual journeys, no one else can do it for us, no other human can talk to God for us, or has the right to talk to God for us, because somehow or another they are more worthy to do it…??

      • High Queene Shelly Belly says:

        dearest gem, you along with many others are being MISLEAD by the "spin" of misinformed non catholics. there was originally ONE CHRISTIAN FAITH. everyone believed the same doctrine. everyone was a christian and everyone knew what that meant, what the doctrines were, and were all in agreement and OBEDIENCE.. As time went on ,little heresies cropped up and were stamped out. The major assault on christianity that had a widescale effect was when a monk named martin luther who was known for his emotional issues (abandonment by his father, guilt issues-he would spend hours in the confessional and couldn’t accept he was forgiven, etc.) started twisting doctrines and stirring up problems based on his own misunderstandings. BY THEIR FRUITS YE SHALL KNOW THEM. This led to the PROTESTant revolt- and you can see the FRUITS of his rebellion- christendom was split in two- just what satan would love. the protestant wold devolved into division into division into division of mere men trying to make up their OWN self-pleasing versions of christianity. You now have in the protestant world of today over THIRTY THOUSAND different, bickering denominations. This is NOT unity, and the devil LOVES IT! One denomination allows abortion, one abhors it. One believes in the true presence of christ in the eucharist, one believes it’s symbolic. one believes in water baptism, one doesn’t. one uses one version of the bible, another uses a different version. ONE HALF OF CHRISTIANITY IS NOW A DIVIDED MESS. Jesus left us with a shepherd to guide and lead his people FOR OUR BENEFIT-the only church to have existed from the time of the apostles- the CATHOLIC (which means universal) church. if you read the writings preserved from the first 300 years of the early church fathers (documents most protestants and nondenominational people don’t even know exist, never mind reading them) it describes the early church practices as being the SAME AS THE CATHOLIC CHURCH OF TODAY- 7 sacraments, an appointed leader, bishops under that leader, real presence of christ in the eucharist. Jesus wants all people to belong to the institution HE set up, NOT martin luther or other mere men.-
        You will notice the first tactic of misleading christians is to TURN YOU AGAINST WHAT CHRIST HAS LEFT YOU FOR YOUR -BENEFIT- for example, you have been given a free spiritual life coach- your confessor- who is your guide in the spiritual life. This has been somehow turned around in some people’s minds as in insult to God. ( i don’t need a go between, etc.)Your confessor uses the power conferred on him BY christ’s church to absolve you of your sins since christ is no longer physically present as he once was. It has nothing to do with the power of the individual man, it is Christ giving you the absolution. This is a comfort to those who understand this is a comfort, and a tool for those wishing to progress in the spiritual life. It is so we don’t HAVE to be alone, and we can receive the same power christ conferred in person. Historical documents recorded that this has been the practice since the time of christ and the apostles. this is nothing new, non- catholics are just not informed of it. If you reject it, YOU REJECT WHAT CHRIST HAS ORDAINED TO BE THE METHOD HE APPROVES. TO REJECT IT is to be led into arrogance and NOT HUMILITY, WHICH GOD LOVES. The saying goes, TO BE INFORMED OF HISTORY IS TO BECOME CATHOLIC. It is only logical to make informed decisions in christianity to start at the top, THE BEGINNING – go to the ancient documents of the christian church and what the practices were. it is illogical to start with claims of today and then work backward, you will be knee deep in error and disinformation and trying to swim backward toward the truth. And you will be caught in a circle of trying to inform catholics that their practices are wrong, when you are misunderstanding their practices and their meanings in the first place. You are being misinformed by people who have a vested interest in keeping you misinformed so they can have their own church/ business.

      • High Queene Shelly Belly says:

        @gem you have not stated your denomination – if you would i would understand your beliefs better, as to where you are coming from-

      • Gem says:

        I am shocked at your hypocrisy and self denial. I am completely fine with you having your opinion, but I just don’t understand you having the one you do. It is pretty arrogant to say that Jesus himself established the Catholic church. Jesus did not start any denomination, you, being human and wanting your religion to be the best of them all, have concocted that idea to make your religion feel legit, instead o0f knowing it is legit because it worships and gives glory to God and God alone. Just another strike on the uncertain, questionable doctrines of Catholicism. And I am so sorry for you that you have been tricked into thinking that you aren’t good enough to repent to God yourself, that you feel like you need a human as a bridge to God, and that that human is somehow appointed more holy than the rest of you and therefore holy enough to talk to God. That’s the whole purpose of religion, the whole reason it exists, is that God gave us His Son so that we could be forgiven of our sins and have a personal relationship with God. I have not said directly that I was against Catholicism, but I do detest any religion that encourages the thought that we as normal people have no right to have personal contact and communication with God- God gave us that right through sending Christ His Son, and to say that the use of another human JUST LIKE US is the only way to have our sins heard and forgiven by God is absolutely deplorable to anyone who believes in God as their only source of life.
        To answer you question, I have grown up in a Evangelical-Free denomination, but I really don’t believe in religion, because nowadays the meaning of religion has become what mankind WANTS to think of God. Religion has become about traditions, "holy objects", and most and worst of all, humans. Therefore, I believe in love. I actually will be honest with you, although I come from a Christian background, I do not have a personal relationship with God right now at this time in my life. I believe in His existence and the existence of good and evil, but I do not claim to having Him as the center of my life. But I do believe in love, and whatever or where ever I find that, that’s what I’ll believe in.

      • High Queene Shelly Belly says:

        @gem, to respond to your other statements- to clear up misunderstandings- you are looking at the situation in your denomination’s terms, which you are mixing in with your mistaken idea of what the catholic position is. The word "pray" is an ancient word meaning, to communicate- as in "pray tell, Juliet, yada, yada," there fore, you can "pray" to Mary, communicate with her, or anyone else who is with christ, as christ will allow them to hear you. This does not mean Mary or anyone else who is holy and gone before us is a god/goddess or that we are equating them with the creator of the universe when they are simply a human being who is on the other side of the veil. That is why it is aggravating for anti-catholics to go around in circles with us about ,"you worship Mary, you’re divinizing her ", blah blah. CATHOLIC DOCTRINE IS SHE IS A HUMAN BEING CHOSEN BY GOD TO BEAR THE SAVIOR, SO WE ARE GRATEFUL TO HER. For this reason God has given her many special priveleges, and out of LOVE she intercedes for us on earth. Jesus has revealed he wants her honored for her role in salvation history. She is right there with Jesus, we are NOT- so why wouldn’t he especially listen to her requests? OF COURSE SHE HAS MORE MERIT WITH HIM THAN WE DO, SHE BORE HIM AND RAISED HIM ! THAT’S ALL, AND WHAT IS SO BAD ABOUT THAT? You don’t have to ask her to intercede for you before her son, but why on earth wouldn’t you, logically? It pleases christ to see her honored, just as you would enjoy seeing your mother honored. And it is an arrogant position created by the anticatholics of long ago to suggest one should be offended by tribute to Jesus’ mother. That way YOU have been conned out of beautiful relationship with her. Even Martin Luther had a great devotion to the virgin mary and wrote quite a bit about it. BEING OFFENDED BY THE VIRGIN MARY IS A TRICK OF SATAN DO DISEMPOWER YOU, because he knows she has been given the assignment to lead the charge against him in the latter days.

      • High Queene Shelly Belly says:

        @gem, — re: me being a modern catholic, once again this reveals you are misunderstanding. and if i knew the real catholic doctrines a
        i"d change my mind, and im being wishy washy- you’ve got all those things BACKWARDS- I KNOW the catholic faith because i’v deeply researched the OFFICIAL documents and don’t listen to rumours from anti-catholics/misinformed people or half-truths or out right smears. That’s why I say to you or anyone else (because i know there are a lot of noncatholics here who have heard the same mistakes) I am not a "cafeteria"catholic , picking or choosing to beleve what I like- I require hard proof and evidence that is well documented. That’s how i decided the catholic church is the original, complete christian faith. It’s either the church christ himself founded or it’s not- and anything after the reformation was created by mere men to please their whims. And re: priests- priests were established by God in JEWISH OT days- there is nothing weird about that- and he laid hands on the 12 apostles to be his first twelve priests of the new church. that is all historically documented,and those apostles laid hands on others, who laid hands on others and passed down AUTHORITY ESTABLISHED BY CHRIST HIMSELF. Once again, non-catholics have twisted this and appealed to men’s arrogance-"he’s no more holy than me, blah blah…" no one said he was more HOLY, he has had the sacrement of holy orders conferred upon him which gives him the ability to hear confessions-as christ established right in the new testament. If you have not had hands laid upon you and recieved the priesthood of christ, well, guess what, he DOES have christ’s authority and we do not.

      • High Queene Shelly Belly says:

        but the catholic church does NOT think you have no right to have a personal relationship with God, that is a misunderstanding. And christ set up his church it’s right in the bible how he did it. And we Do repent and talk to God on our own, anytime we feel like it, then recieve the sacrament christ established. It’s not : nah nah, my church is better than yours, it’s- what is the complete faith as experienced by the apostles.
        Well, I hope you get closer to God when you feel right about it, and i hope you are not going through a hard time. thank you for sharing that with me. I will pray for your happiness. Love, High Queene Shelly Belly

      • Gem says:

        Thank you for your prayers and concern, I deeply appreciate your words.
        God is a loving God, but also a jealous God, He is so adament about us only having Him as our God (the first commandment) and praying to His mother Mary is completely suggesting that you do not believe God is the one and ONLY one we should pray to. Mary was another human just like you are me, that was the absolute miracle of His birth. Yes we should hold her in respect but not put her in a place that only God should hold. The Catholic religion puts her in a place God says in His very word is only for Him. That is blasphemy.
        God tells all of us to go out and share His word with the world, that is what he told His apostles, He did not appoint them to a certain church like you suggest. So you are saying that Peter, for example, went out and touched somebody and gave them the right to be a priest and lead a church, and then that person went out and touched another person, and then another, and then another, and then another, and it goes on and on…That suggest that God is choosy about who can follow Him and who is worthy to lead a group of believers…the wonderful thing about it all is that God doesn’t choose who he wants serivng Him, all are welcome. In fact, he uses the weak and most undeserving people to bring glory to Him. All are welcome to come to God and serve Him. Another strike against Catholicism, there is a certain criteria you have to live up to in order to be a part of the religion. I despise that, or more importantly, deeply hurt for those deceived into thinking that this is the "God who loves" when their church tells them they are not even wanted enough by God to ask forgivness from Him.
        This is religion for you. People twist it into what THEY want to believe, which is why I don’t believe in religion. And I believe that you have created a sort of world where Catholicism is the answer to everything and does everything right ((hmmm, is raping little children right? I know this is a low blow, but I thought I should point this out that the priest that were supposedly directed and blessed by God to lead their religion are rapists and molesters) and thankfully for you, you have probably never had anything happen to you until now that has questioned your beliefs. Therefore your little world has never been shattered completely, but you can’t live in imagination forever. I just hope one day you wake up and see the bondaging and ACTUAL doctrines of Catholicism before they bondage you. If I ever one day believe enough in pray to believe my prayer will actually be heard or count for something, I’ll remember to pray for High Queen Shelly Belly who has "built her house on the sand".

      • Not Of This World says:

        I’m going to pray for you too Gem. I hope that one time in your life you come to know the Lord again.

      • High Queene Shelly Belly says:

        -as someone who has has 20 years training in the theology of catholicism , I can assure you there is nothing in the catholic church documents that permits molesting children. If you can find a passage in the catechism that allows it, let me know. If anyone does something wrong like that it is their own personal sin and it will be meted the justice of God.

        – If you want to discuss facts, instead of emotions, the insurance industry has already released their data stating the majority of sexual abuse case payouts is from protestant churches, NOT catholic churches. the majority of cases are youth pastors crossing the line with teenagers. don’t hear THAT in the news though, huh? this however, does not predjudice me against youth pastors, that would be absurd.

        – Yes worshiping mary or a saint would be blasphemy, since we don’t do it, I’m not worried about it.

        – As a matter of fact, I had an elementary school teacher cross the line with me. Even back then, I just realized he was a wacko. I do not now have a vendetta against schools, or teachers, or assume school and teachers are all evil.. And I do not let it stop me. I pray God does not send him to hell over it.

        – Since you are not familiar with actual church doctrine, I can assure you from the outside looking in, nothing of the sort is happening that you believe is. If you keep going around in circles on topics you are not even familiar with, but are concocting your own reality about what is going on, and won’t be logical and actually look at the REAL teachings, and not the distortions you have picked up, then you are
        unwilling to be openminded and unwilling to deal in facts. That is your decision and i will have to leave you there.

        -my faith has been thouroghly researched, which is why i joined it, my faith is built on the solid rock that christ established.

        For your sake, I hope you come to the realization God has left us the deposit of faith for our BENEFIT, don’t let man or Satan convince you against it. that would be a victory for the advesary, and I guarentee you he is enjoying creating turmoil in you to keep you off balance and bitter against what has been left to you by christ in love.

        -let us close this discussion. Best wishes to you-

      • Gem says:

        Thank you, Not of This World, I appreciate that. I am sorry, HQSB, that my words didn’t seem to show you how maybe you believe in something that you truly don’t know about. I really hoped to ignite in you a want to really go and find out the purpose of the Catholic church, which is to exult people who have no right being in the place of God, claim to have direct blessing from God just to make their religion sound valid when it really sounds rather selfish and wanting. That’s the point I’m trying to make, Catholicism is a wanting religion. When and if I ever have a personal relationship with God, I want it to be fulfilling and give me significance, and I want to believe in something that is the answer to everything, and Catholicism is not any of those. Unfortunately for you, you have not changed my mind about Catholicism, I still believe what I do- the true, cold facts. I’m sorry you were molested as a child. I really hope someday you find your way.
        Best wishes to you as well. I’ve really enjoyed discussing this matter.

  • This is the Morning says:

    The Chronicles of Narnia: The Voyage of the Dawn Treader grossed $13.3 million in its fourth week for a total of $89.9 million. While it has fallen short of its predecessors, it’s a lock to become distributor 20th Century Fox’s first $100 million movie since Avatar passed that mark in December 2009.

    Hey this is good, right? I mean granted "Avatar" made almost 100 mil its first weekend but VDT has been consistent at least. I hope we get to see Puddleglum, Jill, and Eustace! Fox needs to come off some of that cash it raked in from Avatar and do SC right and just have a huge budget, just stay true to the book. Is that asking too much?

    • Anhun says:

      I think that’s asking an awful lot for a company to sink a ton of money in something that won’t make it back for them.

      • Moviecynic says:

        With all the underground sets I wonder if SC wouldn’t be cheaper to make than VoDT? MAKE Puddleglum a man in a suit so there are no CG costs. I know that VoDT really fell short in the US and UK but I am still hoping they find a way to keep the series going. It would be great if the movie could get 100 million in the next two weeks. VODT was a fantastic film. When people see it on DVD and TV they will want to see SC.

      • Non-Negotiable Comment says:

        Moviecynic, I believe you are correct. ‘The Silver Chair’ could be made for less money, and still be a quality production. That brings up another potential problem, though. How will they present this, visually, when so much of it does take place in little to no light? The BBC production, which I love, is hard to use as a barometer because it’s shot on video, and, well, even the best shots look bad.

      • Anhun says:

        They can do amazing things with make-up these days.

    • Non-Negotiable Comment says:

      Good grief. It does not work like that, in any fashion.

  • Thyservant says:

    OH, the people who are responsible for the series, when would you answer us with a YES or NO? Please… SC… Anyway, I’m grateful that there’re already three Narnian films. I’m ready to jump with the YES or stand with the NO.

  • Anhun says:

    According to an article in the Guardian dated Jan 5(so more up-to-date than Box Office Mojo) VDT is doing better than PC pound-wise:

    "Meanwhile Narnia flick Voyage of the Dawn Treader is cruising along steadily with takings up by 30% on the Christmas weekend and dead level with grosses from the 17-19 December weekend. Despite opening with a lacklustre Β£2.20m, the sequel has quietly amassed a total of Β£11.26m after four weeks. Including takings from Monday 3 January, its gross stands at Β£11.83m, already ahead of the lifetime total for 2008’s Prince Caspian (Β£11.79m). Although clearly not destined for the lofty heights of The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe (Β£44.40m), Dawn Treader has at least arrested the steep downward curve for Narnia box office in the UK."

  • NewNarniaFan says:

    From the Guardian (UK):
    Meanwhile Narnia flick Voyage of the Dawn Treader is cruising along steadily with takings up by 30% on the Christmas weekend and dead level with grosses from the 17-19 December weekend. Despite opening with a lacklustre Β£2.20m, the sequel has quietly amassed a total of Β£11.26m after four weeks. Including takings from Monday 3 January, its gross stands at Β£11.83m, already ahead of the lifetime total for 2008’s Prince Caspian (Β£11.79m). Although clearly not destined for the lofty heights of The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe (Β£44.40m), Dawn Treader has at least arrested the steep downward curve for Narnia box office in the UK.

    • Anhun says:

      Jinx! πŸ˜€

      Seems to me that, in most parts of the world where they used a broad marketing scheme, VDT is doing as well as or better than PC. Whereas, in parts of the world where they used a targeted scheme, it isn’t coming close.

    • Anhun says:

      In Australia, it should catch up to PC by the end of this weekend.

  • Non-Negotiable Comment says:

    Looking at the numbers after 29 days, I think it will break $100 million, domestic, on January 17th, and finish with $112.5 million. Disappointing to many, I’m sure, but it’s actually fared a bit better, bang-per-buck, than ‘Prince Caspian’. $112.5 million would be about 80% of ‘Caspian”s domestic take, but at less than 70% of its cost. That *is* moving in the right direction, I suppose.

    Those of you looking for some hope, there’s a tiny bit. It’s better than a pokey thing in the eye, at any rate.

  • Dr JC says:

    Just some updates. N3 cost 150M to make. The P&A (Print and Advertising) buget was 100M. I found a references below that gives this fact. With 65% coming back to Fox/Walden N3 will need to get very close to 400M world wide to pay back its investment. It will be a struggle to make it but it is possible. Keep your eyes on the totals. I think SC is by far the most visual and best story of all the books so far (including N1, but that is my opinion), problem is it will take more FX to make it well. This could be a problem and a huge risk. They really need to focus on the story this time. The story for N3 was very weak but the movie looked and sounded very beautiful.

    http://www.latimes.com/business/la-ct-narnia-20101203,0,1708261.story

    • Anhun says:

      I think they might be willing to settle for less than 400 million in the theatrical run if it looks like they’ll make up the difference in DVD sales. I don’t think 400 million is going to happen.

      I don’t think it would take as much FX to make SC, but that’s just my opinion.

      • Dr JC says:

        Check out the dvd sales for N2. About 70M. that compares to about 350M for LWW. Of this, Walden/Fox would get about 1/2 at best (I guess). That does not help a lot. For this one it needs to happen in theaters or there is little chance. … As to FX for N3 — read the book again … giants, gnomes, snake witch, underwater city, it would look pretty silly if not done right.

      • Anhun says:

        You’re assuming that DVD sales for VDT would be similar to PC. Given that legs that VDT has compared to PC, and the fact that they’re releasing it on DVD sooner, it should do better.

    • Non-Negotiable Comment says:

      It won’t break even at the box office. It doesn’t have to. It will lose considerably less money than the previous film, and should reach profitability sooner, once additional revenue streams are applied. The numbers aren’t great from a public relations perspective, but, they’re good enough to provide a rational basis to argue for another film. That wasn’t the indication a month ago. The ball is in Walden’s court now. Not only to decide about whether there *is* another film, but to decide how to make it much, much better than this recent effort.

  • claireyy says:

    silver chair shall be made!!!!
    it seems that many people’s favorite book out of the narnia series is sc, so i think many people will watch it, right?
    do you think the profit of the movies depend on how much people like the book?
    (like lwd, many people liked it so they earned a lot of money. some people didnt really like pc so they earned less money)

    • Anhun says:

      No, that’s only among fans of the book series, which are a small percentage of the movie-going public. VDT is, by and large, just as popular as SC and it didn’t do very well. You have to remember LWW is popular and well-known even among people who haven’t read the whole series. LWW has actually sold twice as many copies as the rest of the series put together.

  • Alambil and Tarvis says:

    Since it was just released in some countries, the worldwide total should reach $400M, which should be enough for Fox to greenlight SC. By that point, it would’ve made just over twice as much as the production budget, which should be just fine for a studio that’s not as overly ambitious as Disney. Plus, you have to keep in mind that the budget for PC was WAY too big and that’s why Disney considered the earnings as disapointment.

  • Tribunal says:

    This Weekend’s Estimates:

    Depending on the source, VDT is either at #10 or #11. It dropped 53% from the weekend before to gross $4.7 million for a total of $94.6 million.

    http://boxofficeguru.com/weekend20.htm

    • Anhun says:

      We all knew it would go down, but that’s just pitiful.

      • Kristine says:

        This is sad. I knew it would go down, but I did not expect it to drop from 5 to 11. It may have to do with the fact that a lot of theaters, at least by me, only have it on 1 screen and it is in 3d. I honestly think more people would see it if it was in 2d. It is hard to justify spending so much money on a repeat viewing.

      • Non-Negotiable Comment says:

        There are five large theatre complexes in my city currently showing ‘Dawn Treader’. Not a single one of their screens is showing it in 2D. I can’t believe that there is no option for me to see it as Dante Spinotti and and Michael Apted originally intended me to. Well, other than waiting until the Blu Ray release. I don’t know if I would have liked the film any more, but it certainly would have been less annoying. The compromises they made for the sake of the 3D conversion process made it look drab, out of focus, and lifeless.

      • Anhun says:

        I’m wondering if Yogi’s superior performance is related to the fact that it seems to be more widely available in 2D. At least it is in my area. Everybody seems to hate Yogi, whereas a fair percentage of people really like VDT.

      • High Queene Shelly Belly says:

        actually, i felt the 3d make it look lovely! and not tacky, with lots of stuff thrown at your face-

  • commonlogic says:

    VDT will make over 100 million domestic perhaps even by the end of next weekend. After the dismal opening weekend of 24 million, I don’t think anyone in the know would have believed it would surpass 100 million. It’s closing in on 310 million worldwide. China, Japan, Argentina, Venezuela and a few others could add another 40 to 50 million or more. With this and the remaining days to play in all countries, it could get close to 400 million which would be more than enough to merit SC; certainly at a 130 million or so budget. For perspective Golden Compass only made 70 million domestic but cost 25 million more (a difference of AT LEAST + 55 million in favor of VDT); When it’a all said and done PC may have made a total worldwide of 20 million more BUT cost AT LEAST 70 million more (a difference of AT LEAST + 50 million in favor of VDT).

    • LordEomΓ­l says:

      Yes, and please bear in mind that one of the reasons that Golden Compass failed was that New Line had sold the rights to the foreign markets before the release to be able to make a sequel right away. They counted on superior numbers domestically, which of course didn’t happen. New Line didn’t earn money on the film’s international gross. I don’t think this is the case with Narnia.
      BTW: I have to doubt the widely aknowledged P&A-budget for the movie. 100 mill. sounds excessive. Normally a movie will use around 40-50 % of the budget on P&A. I have a hard time believing that they they used 100 mill. for a movie with a production budget of 125 mill. Having studied a lot of similar numbers the last couple of years that doesn’t really seem to add up.

  • commonlogic says:

    Disney/BV so brilliant? Not so fast. Financially, relatively speaking (production cost to worldwide revenue), VDT is doing better than both Tron and Tangled; especially when looking at the worldwide numbers. Tangled cost 260 million to produce or 105 MILLION MORE than VDT !!! Tron cost 15 million more than VDT. It looks like VDT will beat both films handily in worldwide revenue. I saw the original Tron … ok fun, but have 0 interest in the 2nd. I saw Tangled and enjoyed it very much BUT had no idea, until a bit ago, that it cost 260 million to produce !!!

    • Non-Negotiable Comment says:

      Using worldwide revenue as one lump sum number as a comparative basis for actual performance is NOT mathematically valid. I don’t know how many times this has to be said. ‘Tron’ is doing significantly better domestically than ‘Dawn Treader’. Even with the latter’s slightly smaller budget and deceptively gaudy international numbers, the two films are pretty much a wash, performance-wise. ‘Dawn Treader’ will lose much less money at the box office than ‘Tangled’, this is true. But, ‘Tangled’ is also the kind of film that Disney knows how to sell a billion copies of on DVD/Blu Ray, from now until the end of time. Its long-term prospects are better than that of ‘Dawn Treader’.

      So, I don’t know how ‘brilliant’ Disney are, but I wouldn’t use either of those cases as examples of poor decision-making, per se. Poor management in terms of ‘Tangled’, assuredly, but, ultimately, they’ve still produced a very valuable commodity that will pay off for them for decades.

      Disney bailed on the Narnia franchise in a very panicky and weaselly fashion, I agree. But, you know, it was nothing personal. If they thought they could make more money investing in these films, they would have. It’s just business. Let’s move on.

      • commonlogic says:

        Nothing against Disney. As I mentioned, I went to see Tangled and really enjoyed it. Domestic numbers do carry more weight than the wordwide numbers BUT worldwide numbers have, in the past decade or so, become far more important than you seem to be implying. In terms of worldwide numbers it appears that VDT, which had a much smaller production budget, will outperform Tangled and Tron. China and Japan have yet to be heard. My comment was really more in responce to some VDT bashing comments and reviews I’ve seen around the web, not here; in general denigrating VDT/NARNIA, praising Disney for dropping it, and elevating Tron and Tangled.

      • Tribunal says:

        @common

        A bit early to speculate on the WW numbers don’t you think? Haven’t followed Tangled’s numbers but Disney has purposely been slow in releasing Tron in many countries. Currently VDT is out in over 70 countries versus +40 countries for Tron.

        And as mentioned before Disney, will easily make hundreds of millions over the next few years with all the merchandise, clothes, themeparks, etc. Something Fox cannot say.

      • Anhun says:

        Tangled hasn’t hit the UK or any of the major east Asian markets yet.

      • commonlogic says:

        Disney could make hundreds of millions on kids merchandise and what not, even if they had spent only 130 million on Tangled not 260 MILLION!!! Not financially "brilliant". Again, this is not against Tangled. I liked the movie. Well see how the worldwide numbers vs production and advertising costs add up in the end. All I’m saying is that VDT was a great movie in my opinion, and it is not doing as bad as some are claiming. Will likely surpass 400 million … and I think that’ll be enough for SC.

  • son of adam says:

    7 times! πŸ˜€

  • narnian21 says:

    Now I understand what it means when a movie doesn’t open up too great in a bad snowstorm. I’m going to school in Tennessee and a bunch of snow came through and nobody was out on the road. Schools and businesses were closed. It was deserted! I can see how that affected opening weekend for VDT

  • commonlogic says:

    Just passed 337 million. Has yet to open in Japan (big market), Venezuela and has just openned in China. Still weeks to run in the US and other countries. I believe it will surpass 400 million.

  • Embrace says:

    It hit number one here in Sweden is still number 2 for this fourth week. Hardly weak! Go forth Dawnie! πŸ˜‰

  • Embrace says:

    It hit number one here in Sweden and is still number two for this fourth week. Hardly weak! Go forth Dawnie! πŸ˜‰

  • freya says:

    Well, it has passed 337 mill now, so I’m thinking that maybe the China release helped. Japan still to go, so I think it’s a pretty sure bet that it will surpass 400 mill. This movie is a hit worldwide, and I’m tired of people claiming otherwise. Norway has a population of 4,5 mill people, 160.000 has seen VDT in the two weeks it’s been out, just to give you an indication. And why should Fox bother with the PC numbers anyway? They didn’t make PC.

    • Anhun says:

      I have high hopes for Japan. So far, VDT has done better than Caspian in all of the east Asian countries where it’s been out for any length of time.

      • Thyservant says:

        The Chinese audiences also hold two completely different ideas about the film: some said that it was childish; others thought that that’s what Narnia means, for children themselves and their family and for the childhood in every adult’s memory. Anyway, the majority speak highly of the visual effect. And it’s now at 2nd place in cinema.

      • Anhun says:

        Seems like here in America, there are more opinions than you can shake a stick at. I was hopelessly confused going into it.

      • Non-Negotiable Comment says:

        The film *is* childish. That’s a perfectly appropriate description. Not child-like, with its playful connotations, but child-ish:

        1. Of, like, or appropriate to a child.
        2. Silly and immature.

        It really is a kiddie movie. I kept waiting for Drinian and Caspian to exchange knock-knock jokes. Ugh.

  • Name* says:

    They should make a whole bunch of movies not related to narnia and set a little aside from the profit of each movie, then when they get enough money they should make all seven movies the length apart from each other they are in the books. Also they should ask the C. S. Lewis Estate if they could make the narnia series twice one more family friendly and the other more true to the book, thus taking care of both problems.

  • Queen Su says:

    I checked on the latest income and it’s now up to 337 million… It looks like it will at least match Prince Caspian!! πŸ™‚

    • Non-Negotiable Comment says:

      It may come close to, or even slightly surpass, the foreign numbers of ‘Prince Caspian’, but that’s all. ‘Dawn Treader’ will finish at least $30 million behind ‘Caspian’ in domestic earnings. A better investment, yes. A better earner? No.

      I also think $400 million is going to be very difficult to achieve. It would have to earn $112 million domestic, and $288 million foreign to reach that figure. That means it needs another $17.5 million domestically, and about $45 million internationally. Optimally… maybe. That’s really pushing it, though.

      • Duffleglum says:

        na, reaching $400 million isn’t too hard, but it won’t be the U.S. that will provide the push it needs.

        Japan will hopefully give us that push, as VDT has yet to release there.
        (It was the biggest foreign producer of income for PC)

      • commonlogic says:

        I’m figuring a modest additional 10 to 12 million domestic in the remaining 70 days or so, 40 million or so between China, Japan, Venezuela (others?), plus 3% or so from everywhere else will get us to around 400 million.

  • ifah says:

    I wanted to watch Last Battle
    I can not wait until 2017 because I was not sure if I still lived in the year 2017

  • Ben says:

    KEEP IT UP NARNIA….. I WILL BUY TH DVD AND I WANT YOU TO MAKE THE NEXT FILM> YOU MUST YOU MUST YOU MUST….