New Set Photo of the Dragon Cave?

Posted October 19, 2009 10:12 pm by fantasia_kitty

MundoNarnia has a new set photo. We don’t know for sure if it’s for The Voyage of the Dawn Treader or not, but it looks like it could be the dragon cave full of treasure.

Dragon Cave?

They also have some concept art and set photos from an earlier shoot. You can check them all out here.

Thanks to Narniamiss for the heads up!

186 Comments For This Story

  • Adeona says:

    YAHOO! Finally some actual news. I was about to go insane.

    So this is the mysterious set that was being built in the backlot. It looks pretty good. Plenty of treasure, for sure. I wouldn’t think it would spill out the front like that though. I also would have thought the outside of the cave would have a little more greenery. Is this the inside? Wouldn’t they have built the cave interior set in a location where they could control the lighting a lot more? Not that I know much about this kind of thing! Just thinking.

    The WWII era stuff all looks great. As someone else mentioned, the bicyclist is a nice touch.

  • Princess Arya says:

    What’s the fifth picture of? Or the middle picture on the second row? It looks blurry, and maybe like concept art. On second thought – the storm maybe?

    • The Great and Fearless Pug says:

      It looks like water, so yeah, I would say it’s the storm, unless they are putting naiads in the movie. πŸ™‚

      • Princess Arya says:

        Well, you don’t know (when it comes to Naiads) because they do have a lot of Minotaurs and creatures like that on the ship. There might be some naiads.

  • Ivan_Air says:

    Look here!!!
    Have you pay attention at the document on this photo: http://i051.radikal.ru/0910/f4/f9bb2969bc4f.jpg ?
    Its term finishes on Dec, 31, 1943. I suppose such documents’ term lasts for a year.
    It means that the scene is laid in England on summer 1943. So Lucy and Edmund weren’t in Narnia nearly 2 years? It’s interesting…

  • TheBrilliantNorthernStar says:

    NEWS!!! Finally! I definately could be from Narnia, and I REALLY HOPE THAT IT IS!! πŸ˜€ Narnia is so cooooool.

    • TheBrilliantNorthernStar says:

      Oops, I meant "It" instead of "I". I mean, I definately am from Narnia but that’s not what I meant πŸ˜€

  • NarniaLuver4Ever says:

    Wow, NarniaWeb is the best website ever! Narnia Freaks unite! LOL

    • narniafan4ever β™₯ says:

      Yeah, I know! Horray for NarniaWeb! Yay!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! πŸ˜€ πŸ˜€ πŸ˜€ πŸ˜€ πŸ˜€ πŸ˜€ πŸ˜€ πŸ˜€ πŸ˜€ (bet you’d never guess that I am a Narnia freak…..lol)

      • TheBrilliantNorthernStar says:

        I know, I get on Narniaweb like a million times a day!!! This is the BEST WEBSITE EVER!!!

      • Starlily says:

        Yeah, it’s become a habit for me to visit this site several times a day. At least, when I have the time. πŸ˜€

  • NothinButNarnia says:

    awesome! That is so cool!!!!!!

  • WilliamLuver13 says:

    That’s really Cool i hope its for VofDT!

    • aslan'schild says:

      OH MY FREAKING REALLY!!!!! FINALY SOME NEWS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
      wow, i was going kind of mentaly crazy there… πŸ™‚

  • narniafan4ever β™₯ says:

    I am getting sooooo excited for this movie! It is going to be great….I can feel it!!!!!!! πŸ˜€

    • TheBrilliantNorthernStar says:

      Yeah This is going to be the best movie ever made in the history of moviemaking… Narnia is the best. I ADORE it and all my friends think I am spooky because I always talk about it and sigh and say how much iI love it and… yeah. They think I’m weird πŸ˜€

  • Lady Polly says:

    it looks a little small for a dragon, don’t you think.

    • nightshade says:

      Hear!Hear!I think it WAY to small for loot much less a dragon.How are they going to flim and play the parts at the same time?

    • NarniaNut says:

      They might film it in a particular way to make it look bigger.George Lucas did that with Star Wars for the space ships and stuff,and I think the same technique can be applied to caves and structures and stuff.

    • Starlily says:

      Maybe it will only be used for closeups. Or they’re not finished building it.

  • Puddleglum says:

    At last! Now we get into the part of the film that deals with Eustace, and eventually his meeting with Aslan.

  • Narnian4Life says:

    Yay for news πŸ˜€ i don’t believe it though. the cave looks too small for it to be part of the film. thank god for narniafans.com and narniaweb.com for giving me the lowdown on everything narnian πŸ˜€

  • Nuts4Narnia says:

    Anyone still on?? I soo cant wait 4 the next movie its not my favorite one (actually its pretty low in my list Go HHB!!!)but narnia love has no boundries!! lol
    the rumor about having the green witch in it is kinda disturbing tho

  • NarniaNut says:

    What is HHB?

    • Nuts4Narnia says:

      HHB is the horse and his boy, its ok i was reading some other comments and had to run through the books to remember which one they were

  • 220chrisTian says:

    "Skandar’s said that he’s an atheist, and so the best thing that I think I can do for him as a fan is to pray for him, that one day he’ll see the light and truly accept the gift of eternal life in heaven." … "But then again, my dad does have a saying I really like: ‘In a time of war or great danger, even the Atheists will turn to some sort of god.’ Hopefully one day they will all feel it necessary to turn to Christ. We can only love them and continue to pray for them." … "I have been praying for Skandar as well. I was really sad to hear that he is an atheist. I think part of it might be the fact that his great-great-great…how ever many "greats"… Grandfather was Charles Darwin. Anyway, to think that he (Skandar) seems to be a good person, but that he might miss Jesus is quite sad… πŸ™ Just keep praying…"
    Thank you all SO MUCH! I’ve been praying for Skandar since January. His dad’s book-turned-movie "Creation" [about Darwin] premiered in the UK last month. And people are preparing big Darwin celebrations in November. πŸ™ Check out my Facebook group: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=117014636287 It’s called "Narnia cast and crew: pray!" GOD BLESS YOU ALL! KEEP PRAYING!

    • 220chrisTian says:

      I posted this in the wrong place. Sorry! [see 1st pg of comments]

      • Nuts4Narnia says:

        wow that is soo sad that skanders an athiest but mayb working on the narnia movies will help him get saved hes still really young to, pray pray pray!!

      • Aravis Tarkheena says:

        OK way too religious please keep this in your own mind because everyone on here is not your religion.

      • narniafan4ever β™₯ says:

        Yes, Aravis Tarkheena, not everyone shares that religion, but this is a free country where people can share any religion they want to, as long as it stays clean. πŸ™‚

      • Aravis Tarkheena says:

        I get what you mean and I was only trying to say that she doesn’t have to turn into a bishop just say God bless edmund/ skandar and that you fell bad for him and thats all you have to say.

      • narniafan4ever β™₯ says:

        There is nothing wrong with her starting a blog about this! She has a genuine passion for this. It is not something that she is trying to shove down people’s throats. Everyone can decide whether or not they want to participate. πŸ™‚ No one is being forced here. πŸ˜€

      • 220chrisTian says:

        Aravis: why do I feel bad for Skandar? Because he doesn’t believe in God, his Creator and Redeemer. Skandar doesn’t believe in the One who created him in His image and formed his heart to love and worship Him alone. He doesn’t believe in the One who loves him more than anyone else on this earth, who died for him on a cross and paid the debt of sin [Jesus Christ!]. That’s why I mourn for Skandar. Saying "God bless you" is cheap if he doesn’t believe in God. And it won’t save him, which is what I care about. πŸ™

      • narnian resident says:

        220cristian that is very bold and powerful of you. i think its amazing when cristians finally stand up and go out of their way to make Him known. ya know one reason i love the narnia books is the hidden cristian values that c.s. lewis put into it. i’ll be praying along side of you, not just for skander but for everyone. you know i dont know if he’s read the narnia books or not, but i know for a fact they can really change you! and people, there’s another book out there that can change you even more: the bible! all i can say for now is that 220cristian is right. God can change you life in the most unbelievable way! He loves you all, each and every one of you, so much! and i know, that once you become His, your life will never be the same.

      • narniafan4ever β™₯ says:

        Yep, you hit it right on the head, 220chrisTian! I applaud you for your boldness. πŸ˜€

      • Aravis Tarkheena says:

        hey this is Aravis’s older sister, and i’ve been reading this stuff and yeah awsome that you believe n’ all, i do too i’m catholic, BUT to some people this could be really offending so please shut the hell(as in the place) up i personailly do not like it and it sounds like a bunch of bull coming from somewhere other then a church

        thank you and i lovers you all have a good day ;D

      • narniafan4ever β™₯ says:

        No offence, Aravis Tarkheena’s older sister, but this is a public chat. Yes, we should be respectful, but there is nothing wrong with us talking to each other about our beliefs, as long as we keep it clean. We aren’t trying to offend anyone, and we are sorry if someone is offended. But, we can’t help but talk about this Savior who is so amazing! I personally am not offended by someone sharing their beliefs. I just either ignore it or listen so I can better understand what they believe. And if anyone is offended, I would love it if they would say so. Once again, I don’t want to offend anyone, but I do want to be able to talk about my savior without feeling like I need to hold back just because someone doesn’t believe it too. And why would this stuff sound bad unless it came from a church? The "church" is just a building that people use to spend their day of rest and worship. But, the beliefs themselves are made up by, in my case, the Bible. But the beliefs don’t truly carry on and spread unless people adopt it themselves. It is not the building that makes it better. And also, if Jesus was worried he would offend someone, his whole ministry wouldn’t have existed! There is no doubt that people were offended by Jesus! Not that He wanted to offend someone, but sometimes people are going to be offended. SO all in all, I am sorry if someone is offended. I am not trying to offend anyone. πŸ™ I enjoy being able to have clean discussions and meet others and learn more about what they believe. πŸ™‚

      • 220chrisTian says:

        narniafan4ever β™₯: ditto! By the way, what happened on the Halloween news post? All kinds of comments were removed! And it won’t let me post anything either! πŸ™ When I said "are you on Narniaweb," I meant the forum, which I’m a member of. I can send you Halloween pics via private message. And there’s a Narnia and Christianity board on it, which I would love for you to join! πŸ˜€ // Aravis: the church isn’t a building. It’s people redeemed by Christ. The church exists to worship Jesus and tell others about Him, to meet others’ spiritual needs [and physical, when necessary]. Witnessing/evangelism is the heart of Christ. It’s also His command, the "Great Commission." You know what my pastor said about the disciples in the upper room [Acts 2]? They were so full of God they went out into the streets and witnessed! Read the book of Acts [of the Apostles] when you get a chance. What were those acts? Preaching and healing! We need to ask ourselves, if Jesus isn’t our lips WHEREVER we go, is He in our hearts?

      • Aravis Tarkheena says:

        Sorry for my older sisters language and sorry if I got all of you wrong but I just scanned through the comments so I must have got some things wromg and I wasn’t saying anything about her blog All i’m trying to say is if you are going to talk about this stuff please go to a priavte Chat room.

      • Fire Fairy says:

        Aravis, I’m sorry you feel that way. The only problem is, some of us aren’t members of the forum, because we "can’t" (as in parents’ interfering) or we have a problem with private chat rooms. I understand why you want this sort of thing to be kept out of public comment areas, and I respect that. But when it comes to Narnia, you’ll have a very difficult time keeping people from turning the conversation to God. You don’t have to read them if you don’t want to. Frankly, I think the reason we’re doing this in the comment area is because we’re so bored and dying for news, so we make it up with discussions about our two favorite subjects: Narnia, and religion.

      • Aravis Tarkheena says:

        I get what you mean but the day i submited those comments I was really grumpy so I replied meanly. and I glad you told me everything I get why you would be bored because without the spies sending us videoes and people not telling us anything interseting about the cast and VDT it get boring.and I’m glad we’re sorting it out because I thought it got really out of ahnd and there was going to be some kind of web war between this religous and it was mostly my fault so I’m sorry. ^^

      • Fire Fairy says:

        We forgive you. πŸ˜€ πŸ˜€

        Just remember, everyone’s entitled to his/her own opinion, as long as he/she respecty everybody else’s opinions. πŸ˜‰

      • narniafan4ever β™₯ says:

        I forgive you, too. πŸ˜€ And tell your sister that I forgive her too. πŸ™‚

      • Aravis Tarkheena says:

        Ok ^^ (sniff) I keep forgetting.^^ ANd I’ll tell her she really doesn’t look at this type of stuff so I’m her messange bear.^^ And I’m really really sorry.

      • narniafan4ever β™₯ says:

        220chrisTian: I have no idea what happened in that page, but I can’t comment on it anymore either! Hm….I guess we got a little outspoken…oops. 😐

      • 220chrisTian says:

        I asked a mod and she said the comments got really out of hand and off topic, so they deleted all that stuff that wasn’t about the news story and basically locked the page, i.e. no more comments. What was everyone talking about? I don’t even know now. πŸ™

      • narniafan4ever β™₯ says:

        Just people were all fighting over the subject of Halloween…and why people shouldn’t practice it, or why it is okay to celebrate….yeah. 😐

      • Fire Fairy says:

        Wow. It sounds like some people get very dogmatic and overzealous about their personal opinions and practices! I’m glad we haven’t gotten to that point on this page…

        Anyways, maybe it just goes to show that a respect for everyone’s opinions is the best attitude to have, whether on the internet or in day-to-day interactions.

      • narniafan4ever β™₯ says:

        Amen to that, Fire Fairy! πŸ˜€

        wow….that took me while to find the reply button….here we go again! And we have officially made it to 400 comments on this page, too. I guess we better get more news….soon! πŸ˜€

    • TheBrilliantNorthernStar says:

      WOW!! That’s really sad! I didn’t know what they believed in but that is not what I wanted to hear… but thanks for the newes. I will definately be praying!

    • Puddleglum says:

      This is where I hope the producers follow the book more closely in this film.
      Remember the last scene, where Aslan talks to the children before they return to "our" world? He tels them to look for Him there. I beleive that Lewis was far more open in his witness in these books than we have seen in the movies thus far.
      I too will be adding my prayers. Remember, "Where two or more are gathered together, in My name, there I am also". I beleive that can include the internet as well.

    • Lutra's Pearl says:

      I also have been praying for them all. I was telling my Mom yesterday that even though atheist’s say they dont believe in God many of them are bitter at him for some reason. The best thing you can do there is to piont out that they are bitter at something that they dont even believe in. Also William, when asked about his religon said "Well…I guess that I believe in God". Which dosn’t impress me any because if you think about it, Satan believed in God too. So we should be praying for all of them. Keep the story of Aslan alive!!!

      • narniafan4ever β™₯ says:

        Good point, Lutra’s Pearl. The key to truly being saved is having that personal relationship with God and Jesus. πŸ˜€

      • Starlily says:

        Yes, Satan and his angels also "believe and tremble" (I think there’s a verse in the Bible that says that, but I don’t know where). Everyone keep praying for the cast, because with God all things are possible.

      • Puddleglum says:

        "Show me your faith without deeds, and
        I will show you my faithby what I do. You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that– and shudder." James 2:19 NIV
        What does an old marshwiggle have to do while sitting in his wigwam but read?

      • Princess Arya says:

        You could go fishing πŸ˜‰

      • Fire Fairy says:

        Puddleglum, I’m curious, but what version of the bible is that? (I don’t know what NIV stands for). I’ve never heard of it. I use the King James Version.

      • narniafan4ever β™₯ says:

        NIV is New International Version. I use KJV too, and I like it the best. πŸ˜€

    • Aslan's Meadow says:

      Wow! that’a lot of comments. I have to stay I agree that we can post whatever we want on this page, this website is very "Narnian" but also very christian (which is probobly why it is so clean and fun!) πŸ™‚ so lets’s keep talkin’!

  • Lucy says:

    I found this very cool thing it is the lamp post paper modal on paperkraft.net and in the search you have to write: Narnia papercraft street lamp!!!!!!!!!!! πŸ™‚ πŸ™‚ πŸ™‚ πŸ™‚ πŸ™‚ πŸ™‚

  • Fire Fairy says:

    Yeah, narniafan4ever, I have to very careful not to spend too much time on here, or my dad’ll block it with parental controls. He did do it once, too, so I have to be extra careful. And since I got my little sister hooked on Narnia, he’s had to block her from it. He doesn’t want us to become obsessed and waste too much time on NarniaWeb… *looking around and whistling innocently* :S

    • Fire Fairy says:

      Oops. Posted this in the wrong spot. Sorry.

    • Aunt Letty says:

      Fire Fairy,

      I read this wherever else you posted it but can’t find it now, bah! So, I’ll reply here.

      Anyway, I’ve had to put "parental controls" (parental controls because I’m the parent and I’m controlling me. πŸ™‚ )on my Narniaweb visits, myself. You guys are all so much fun to talk Narnia to. You don’t engage in the inanity of most webchat. You actually have something to say!

      • Fire Fairy says:

        Thanks. My dad’s original reasoning that it was "bad" was because it sounded too much like a chat room. But a chat room that discusses the bible and gets after people for being degrading or using bad language isn’t a "chat room" in necessarily a bad sense, is it? I had a really tough time explaining it to him. To him, a chat room is a chat room, and that’s that.

      • Fire Fairy says:

        Oh, and it’s on the first page, near the end, where we were having our amazing and overly long discussion, but that’s okay. I’ve come back to our discussion so many times I could probably find it with my eyes closed. πŸ˜‰

  • Fire Fairy says:

    Okay, I know it’s really late, but I was just watching LWW for an assignment (I know, it’s awesome, isn’t it?), and I couldn’t help noticing the significance of colors in the film, so I just had to share them. I’ll try to keep this short.

    I noticed that while most of the film depicts the White Witch and her followers using a cold palette of colors (whites, grays, blues, etc.), the stone table scene is the only time in the entire movie where they are showed with a warm color palette (orange, red, yellow, brown)! On closer inspection, I realized that the entire color scheme of the scene reflected the colors in Aslan’s fur and mane! Coincidence? I think not. Was it to show that even though Aslan was giving Himself up, He was the one in control, not the Witch, perhaps?

    Also, in that very scene, I noticed that it’s the only time where the witch and her followers are surrounded by so much fire…which is usually considered the "opposite" element of ice! Again, I don’t think that’s a coincidence.

    The other part about colors that I noticed is the battle. The witch and her followers are all depicted using metallic colors and textures, giving them a cold, dead feeling, while Aslan’s troops are shown with very warm, organic colors and textures, giving them the sense of being living and breathing. Isn’t that cool, or what??

    Okay, I’ll get off my soapbox now…thought I’d share that with everybody! Tell me what you think!

    • Puddleglum says:

      Exellent observations.
      That can be connected to the cross so well.
      While He died for us he could easily have levt the cross, and while He could have been killed like the two thieves, "He gave up His Spirit"

    • narniafan4ever β™₯ says:

      Awesome, Fire Fairy! That is deep. πŸ˜€

    • Frodo Fan says:

      Wow! I never noticed that until you just posted that. That is really cool! It just goes to show you that there is more to this movie than meets the eye.

    • Princess Arya says:

      Fascinating! I had noticed that PC seemed to have deeper colors than LWW (LWW seemed to be brighter or something) but I never really read into it like that.

      It’s kind of like how the White Witch turns from her white icy gowns to her black battle one.

    • Aunt Letty says:

      Very interesting! I hadn’t noticed the shift to warm palette in the sacrificial scene. I think you’re on to something with your guess about the reason behind it. I wonder if it was done consciously by the creative team or instinctively?

      You’ve probably also noticed that the Telmarines in PC are all wearing very subdued, mostly grey colors. Very industrial, Ayn Rand-soviet colors. I wondered if that was a deliberate choice to represent Lewis’ attitude toward industrialization? He seemed to use the Telmarines to represent a certain kind of "civilization" that’s marked by excessive devotion to man’s cunning and skill, over nature’s gifts and God’s creative power.

      Interestingly, the embroidery on Caspian’s shirt, which we only really see after he’s had his white witch encounter and a change of paradigm, is very organic.

      • Fire Fairy says:

        Sweet! That’s what I love about books and movies, especially ones like Narnia–there are so many little details that add to the significance of the movie that most people don’t notice!

      • TheScribblingScribe says:

        I never noticed that before! Great observations!

    • Fire Fairy says:

      Actually, another thing I noticed was a few cool things with the music. I actually noticed that a few of the themes in the frozen river scene are repeated in the battle! Forshadowing, maybe? Or it could be a representation of Peter’s internal battle… Thoughts, anyone?

      • Lutra's Pearl says:

        They also takemany of the songs from the LWW and use them in PC, only they make it deeperand a little more advanced then LWW. It that makes any sence.

  • Aunt Letty says:

    Oh, and we see it in the tree house when he first meets the Old Narnians. Hmmm.

  • cuppycakesrach says:

    finally some real news .. i was about to pull my hair out XD .. exciting stuff :DD funny thing is that’s how I imagined the dragon cave glod running over on the outside of the cave i’m so excited about the movie :DDD

  • Puddleglum says:

    I was wondering how many out there have read any of Lewis’s books, other than the Chronicles?
    The Space Trilogy perhaps?
    I found it very interesting to see just how his faith progressed, and was expressed in his writings.

    • Fire Fairy says:

      I’m actually currently reading The Screwtape Letters, and have checked out Till We Have Faces and The Space Trilogy. I decided that since I am such a fan of Narnia I might as well read C.S. Lewis’s other works. The Screwtape Letters is very fascinating and profound…I absolutely love it!!

    • Aunt Letty says:

      One of my favorites is his journal of the year after Joy passed away. I can relate to so much of what he ponders there.

    • Princess Arya says:

      I’ve read the Space Trilogy. I’d like to read The Screwtape Letters eventually; I have the book. I did start reading it but never finished.

  • Aunt Letty says:

    That "reply" button was just getting too far away!

    The barber analogy was a good one. And I liked the quote about a girl staying so close to God that a boy would have to look for God to find her. Likewise, a girl should look for a boy to whom she will be second in his heart, after God. That’s a young man you can depend upon.

    On the subject of atheism; I agree with what was said above (sorry but I’m too lazy to scroll through a second time and figure out who said what and too old to remember…pathetic), both the view that people choose atheism as a defense against what they see as a restriction of their freedom, and that people are simply too in love with their own "gods". Pride, too, is a factor. I think you’re all quite right about that.

    People more and more want to create God in their own image. Rather than seeking to find that which is bigger than themselves in order to build their lives around it, they seek that which will justify what they already want to do.

    On the other hand, I have met people who are kind, compassionate, honest, virtuous, unbelievers. People whom I could try to be more like. Who am I to judge what led them to their inability to accept whatever they’ve experienced and had presented to them as "God"? I judge only myself and how I use the light and knowledge that I’ve received.

    I think of the young Calormene captain in The Last Battle. I’m glad it’s not up to me to decide who belongs to Tash and who belongs to Aslan.

    Curious: what do you think of the dwarves in the stable not being taken up by either? Obviously, they acknowledged neither. Does that make them atheists? If so, what do you make of the fact that Tash didn’t claim them and Aslan fed them? These are not rhetorical questions. I really wonder what you make of it.

    • narniafan4ever β™₯ says:

      Yeah, you are so right, Aunt Letty! And there are some religions today that are even teaching people that they will eventually all become God! Isn’t that what Satan was trying to do before he was cast out of heaven by God with a third of the angels? Just something to think about….

      About that dwarf thing….I need to go back and read that part of the book…hold on….Could you explain to me what the whole plot of that part of the story was?

      All I know is that you have to believe in Jesus as the Son of God to go to heaven and be with God for eternity. Everyone else is destroyed. It sounds harsh, but its the truth. So, In regards to that part of the story, I can’t comment until someone explains that part. Could someone help me? πŸ˜€

      • Aunt Letty says:

        Narniafan,

        the scene I was talking about is at the end of The Last Battle, in the chapter titled, "How the Dwarves Refused to be Taken In". Which is a clever double entedre. The dwarves refused to be "taken in" by what they see as a false idea of the existence of God, and consequently are unable to be taken in by God (Aslan) when he is actually present with them. It’s a profound analogy on several levels. If you take the time to re-read it, you’ll see what I mean.

        Just as we discussed earlier in regard to Susan and her fate, Lewis seems here to support the idea that God will not interfere with our ability to choose. The dwarves choose to deny Aslan’s existence, and Tash’s. Aslan lovingly gives them the opportunity to see and know him, but they have lost the ability by choice.

      • narniafan4ever β™₯ says:

        Yeah, just like people deny that there is God and Satan…. Just because all people don’t believe in them doesn’t mean they don’t exist. πŸ™‚
        And yes, I need to go and read that chapter. πŸ˜€ So, until then…tata! πŸ˜€

      • Fire Fairy says:

        narniafan4ever, let me explain to you something about the religions that teach that people will become God. I know this idea sounds ridiculous, and in that context, it is. But my religion actually teaches us that we all have the ability to progress; in other words, become gods ourselves. I hope I can explain this idea without sounding too radical or offending anybody. We don’t believe that we actually become God. What we believe is that God was once like us, a person on an earth with His own God, and, because of His righteousness, was exalted and was able to have His own spirit children and create His own worlds. So, in essence, we don’t believe we will become God, but that we will become like God, in the same way that a son or daughter grows up and becomes a father or mother, with children of their own. If we are righteous enough, we will become exalted and have our own spirit children and worlds, while at the same time recognizing God as our Father and God. Hope that’s not too deep or confusing. It makes sense to me, but that’s because it’s my religion. πŸ˜‰

      • narniafan4ever β™₯ says:

        Fire Fairy….Are you a firm bible-only believer?

      • 220chrisTian says:

        narniafan4ever β™₯: ditto. Fire Fairy: what’s your source for all this?

      • Fire Fairy says:

        No, I’m not bible-only. This is from my religion; it’s modern revelation. Like I said, this is my personal beliefs. I don’t intend on putting anybody down or anything. It’s just what I believe.

      • 220chrisTian says:

        Fire Fairy: we ALL need to be Bible-only. We don’t need modern revelation. Because the Bible is God’s final revelation of Himself. Jesus Christ is the living Word. He is the One whom the Bible points to. He wrote the Bible. And the Holy Spirit reveals Christ to us through it. So I believe what the Bible says. Read J. I. Packer’s book "Truth and Power: The Place of Scripture in the Christian Life." http://www.ccel.us/packer.toc.html

      • Fire Fairy says:

        220chrisTian, I think that’s great that you believe so firmly in the bible. However, I would like to point out that my belief in modern revelation in no way diminishes my belief in the bible. In fact, it only strengthens it. In Hebrews 13:8 (KJV), it says, "Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever." Malachi 3:6 also says, "For I am the Lord, I change not…" If the Lord is unchanging why would he speak to His children in ancient times, yet not now? I know you don’t believe in things other than the bible, so you probably won’t think much of this, but in The Book of Mormon (yes, I’m Mormon. I’ll admit it!) in 2 Nephi 29:7,9-10, the Lord explains why the bible is not the only revelation, "Know ye not that there are more nations than one? Know ye not that I, the Lord your God, have created all men, and that I remember those that are upon the isles of the sea; and that I rule in the heavens above and in the earth beneath; and I bring foth my word unto the children of men, yea, even upon all the nations of the earth?…And I do this that I may prove unto many that I am the same yesterday, today, and forever; and that I speak forth my words according to mine own pleasure. And because that I ahve spoken one word ye need not suppose that I cannot speak another; for my work is not yet finished; neither shall it be until shall it be until the end of man, neither from that time henceforth and forever. Wherefore, because that ye have a Bible ye need not suppose that it contains all my words; neither need ye supppose that I have not caused more to be written."

        I hope you’re not offended. I’m not trying to prove you wrong, and I respect your beliefs. I’m just showing you why I personally believe in more than the bible. πŸ™‚

      • Fire Fairy says:

        220chrisTian, another thing on what you said. You said that Christ is the one whom the Bible points to. And I agree fully; so why can’t there be more that point to Him? The full title of The Book of Mormon is The Book of Mormon: Another Testament of Jesus Christ. ANOTHER testament. Many people think we are not christian because we are "Mormons". What many people don’t realize, though, is that is simply a nickname. Our official name is "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints". In other words, all of the scripture we believe in and all of our teachings point to Christ. Over half the verses in The Book of Mormon refer in some way or another to Christ. I’m not trying to be preachy or anything, I’m simply trying to clear up a common misunderstanding about my religion. I believe in Christ and the Bible just as firmly as a Bible-only Christian. I just believe that He is not done speaking to His people.

      • Aunt Letty says:

        Wow, narniawebbers, I’m out of breath from trotting up to that "reply" button again. You guys are truly amazing.

        I see that this topic has caused some discomfort. I hope not enough to scare anyone off. This is a place for all us Narnia fanatics to enjoy each others’ fanaticism, so come one come all! Aravis, if the scriptural discussion isn’t your cup of tea, do start another topic, and we’ll all be glad to join you. There’s lots to discuss. These discussions do tend to veer into the scriptures, though, because that’s squarely where the author was coming from, as you said.

        Fire Fairy, I was just released as RS pres. πŸ™‚ .

        I hope we can all "enjoy our faith together" and not be like those who consider different beliefs from their own to be unworthy of consideration or respect. That would be Shift the Ape’s way of dealing with the situation.

        Puddleglum, Rom. 2:14-16 expresses what happens with the Calormene perfectly, in my opinion. Or vice versa, as the case is.

        It sounds as though everyone is in agreement that the dwarves are representational of atheists, undaunted unbelievers in the Word. What do you make of the way they are dealt with? What do you think Lewis was trying to express of his personal belief in regard to Aslan’s attitude toward them? Given that the stable door seems to represent an exit from the mortal life, what was Lewis saying about the end condition of those who simply refuse to believe? And, do you agree with his view?

        If anyone wants to hear my thoughts on this, I’ll give them, but I’m more interested in hearing others’ input, if they want to express it.

      • 220chrisTian says:

        Fire Fairy, I believe divine revelation ended with the book of Revelation, c. AD 90. God still speaks to me regularly. But I must compare what I hear with the Bible because it is God’s final revelation. Why? The devil deceives and I don’t want to be deceived. And sometimes I have an active imagination. So I need an external, authoritative source. And I have it in God’s Word. But I can’t force you to believe the way I do. Still, I want to share these verses with you. They explain my problem with the book of Mormon. Isaiah 8:20: "To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them." 2 Corinthians 11:4: "For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him." Galatians 1:8-9: "But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed."

      • 220chrisTian says:

        God speaks to me through His Word. Many times He’s reminded me of a verse and it will be just what I need for a situation. Other times He’ll relieve a prayer burden. In March God whispered to me part of Isaiah 49:15-16: "Can a woman forget her sucking child, that she should not have compassion on the son of her womb? Yea, they may forget, yet will I not forget thee. Behold, I have graven thee on the palms of my hands; thy walls are continually before me." You have no idea how comforting this was! But this is how God regularly speaks to me: through His Word.

      • Fire Fairy says:

        220chrisTian, I really do appreciate your insight. You have very valid claims for your beliefs. However, I want to point out that we do not preach of "another Jesus," nor do we preach "another Gospel". What our church teaches us is the same Gospel that was preached to the Jews and early Christians. "We believe in the same organization that existed in the primative church, namely Apostles, Prophets, Pastors, Teachers, Evangelists, etc." "We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the kingdom of God." The Christ that visited the ancient Americans was the same Christ that walked among the Jews; the only difference was that He was resurrected. He taught the ancient Americans the same things He taught the Jews. He simply visited another people to deliver them the same message He brought to the Jews.

        Another thing. 220chrisTian, did you know that Revelation was written before some of Paul’s epistles to the Gentiles? Just because it was placed in the end of the Bible doesn’t exactly mean it was the end of divine revelation.

        Okay, I think we’ve both argued enough. I’d love to hear what you have to say about this, but after that, can we be done? I get the feeling we’ll both be very dogmatic about the subject, and therefore we’ll never get anywhere. I respect your opinion; all I’m asking is that you’ll respect mine. πŸ™‚

      • 220chrisTian says:

        You’re right. We’ve both argued enough. 1. After checking online, I see that Revelation wasn’t written last. But it was almost last! John was an old man on the island of Patmos. The only later books are his epistes: 1,2,3 John. However, Paul’s epistles were the earliest NT books, written before the Gospels. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Testament [imperfect but plenty of info] 2. Jesus Christ came to this earth as a Jew for Jews. He is their Messiah. Jesus witnessed to and helped many Gentiles. But He came for Jews. During His trial and crucifixion, Jesus was called "King of the Jews" [Matthew 27:11,29,37; John 19:19]. It was only after His ascension that the gospel spread to Gentiles [Cornelius, Acts 10]. Check out Matthew 10:5-6, 15:24. Also, the place of Jesus’ ministry was Israel. He never left it. I’m curious: according to Mormons, when did Jesus go to ancient Americans? And if so, how?

      • Fire Fairy says:

        That’s very interesting! I knew that Revelation was not last, but I wasn’t actually sure about the order the books were written. Thanks for looking that up!

        According to the Book of Mormon, Christ came to the ancient Americans in A.D. 34, only a few months after His death and resurrection.

        As to how, I think the best way to put it is to just quote the Book of Mormon. In 3 Nephi 11:3-12 (I apologize, it’s kind of long, but it’s a very long account), it says:

        "And it came to pass that while they were thus conversing one with another, they heard a voice as if it came out of heaven; and they cast their eyes round about, for they understood not the voice whitch they heard; and it was not a harsh voice, neither was it a loud voice; nevertheless…it did pierce them that did hear to the center, insomuch that there was no part of their frame that it did not cause to quake; yea, it did pierce them to the very soul, and did cause their hearts to burn.

        "And it came to pass that again they heard the voice, and they understoood it not.

        "And again the third time they did hear the voice, and did open their ears to hear it; and their eyes were towards the sound thereof; and they did look steadfastly towards heaven, from whence the sound came.

        "And behold, the third time they did understand the voice which they heard; and it said unto them:

        "Behold my Beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased, in whom I have glorified my name–hear ye him.

        "And it came to pass, as they understood they cast their eyes up again towards heaven; and behold, they saw a Man descending out of heaven; and he was clothed in a white robe; and he came down and stood in the midst of them; and the eyes of the whole multitude were turned upon him, and they durst not open their mouths, even one to another, and wist not what it meant, for they thought it was an angel that had appeared unto them.

        "And it came to pass that he stretched forth his hand and spake unto the people, saying:

        "Behold, I am Jesus Christ, whom the prophets testified shall come into the world.

        "And behold, I am the light and the life of the world; and I have drunk out of that bitter cup which the Father hath given me, and have glorified the Father in taking upon me the sins of the world, in the which I have suffered the will of the Father in all things from the beginning.

        "And it came to pass that when Jesus had spoken these words the whole multitude fell to the earth; for they remembered that it had been prophesied among them that Christ should show himself unto them after his ascension into heaven."

        The account goes on for several more chapters, but, in essence, Christ shows them the prints of nails in his hands and feet and has them touch them, blesses the sick and afflicted, blesses the children, introduces the sacrament, quotes Isaiah, gives them the Sermon on the Mount, and chooses twelve men to lead the ancient Americans as disciples (not apostles, because the twelve apostle were in Jerusalem). I suggest reading it for yourself if you would like to see what He teaches them and whether you think He really was the same Jesus that went to the Jews. But, yeah, that’s the gist of it. πŸ™‚

      • Fire Fairy says:

        By the way, 220chrisTian, I know I just submitted a VERY long comment, but I just read the scriptures you’ve recommended, and thought I’d add something that you wouldn’t have known. Did you know that the Book of Mormon teaches that the ancient Americans were a branch of the house of Israel? Lehi, the man who took his family out of Jerusalem, into the wilderness, and across the ocean to America was a descendant of Joseph. That’s why we teach in our church that Ezekial 37:15-17 is about the Book of Mormon, "…take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah…then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph…And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in they hand." We believe that the stick, or record, of Judah is the bible, and the stick of Joseph is the Book of Mormon.

      • narniafan4ever β™₯ says:

        I hope you don’t mind if I add something to this discussion…
        Fire Fairy: The verse you are referring to in Ezekiel 37 is talking about the fact that Judah and Israel would be reunited and that the kingdom would be reunited. The writer of this book was prophesying about the time when all the Israelites were gathered back together and under God’s care as one unit. Just read verses 22 and 23. Ezekiel is explaining that they two sticks represented the split of the Israelites and that they would be joined back together as one.
        Also, if your book of Mormon says that it is another book inspired by God, then why doesn’t the bible say that it is another book to listen to? I think that the bible would say very clearly if there was another book that was to go along with it. And if you recall, it says in the bible….im sory i don’t remember the verse….that we are not to add of take away to God’s word.

        So, I am not trying to offend you or anything,Fire Fairy. I just thought I would add my two cents. lol πŸ˜€

      • 220chrisTian says:

        Mark 16:19, Luke 24:51, and Acts 1:9-10 describe Christ’s ascension to heaven. When did this happen? 40 days after His resurrection. As the disciples gazed up into heaven, two angels said, "This same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven" [Acts 1:11]. This is the promise of the Second Coming of Christ. And guess what? It hasn’t happened yet. We’re waiting for Jesus to return to earth a SECOND time, not a third. That’s what Revelation is all about. 19:11–"And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse and He that sat upon him was called Faithful and True…"–describes Christ’s return to earth. This is what we’re waiting for. This is our living hope. And when He returns, He won’t come back with scars in His hands and feet. We’ll see what John saw in Revelation 1:13-16 and 19:11-16. Please read these passages.

      • Fire Fairy says:

        No, narniafan4ever, I’m not at all offended. I actually relish the chance to test my knowledge of the scriptures. πŸ˜€

        narniafan4ever: on what you said about Ezekial, in my church we are taught that "stick" is a reference to the records of the Jews, which were scrolls, and were rolled up on a stick. We are also taught that the phrase "and they shall become one in thy hand" is a prophecy of the last days (now), when the "stick of Judah" and the "stick of Joseph" come together and are in one book, like our "quads" today, which is our version of the scriptures, where the Book of Mormon and the Bible are located in one book. I can’t argue much more about it, other than that’s what I’m taught, because we’ll both stick to our interpretation of the scripture. πŸ˜‰ As to the bible telling of another book, the only time it does that is in Isaiah 29:11-12. This actually happened during the translation of the Book of Mormon, when a man helping Joseph Smith translate took a copy of the characters written on the gold plates to a professor of ancient languages, who tells him the characters are actual ancient characters. The professor then asked if he could see the book so he could translate it. The man tells him that he can’t, because the book is sealed (a large portion of the gold plates was sealed by a large metal band, and was never translated). The professor then angrily hands the characters back to the man, saying, "I cannot read a sealed book". The part in verse 12 referring to "him that is not learned" is talking about Joseph Smith, who had no more than a third grade education. The only other verse I can offer you is John 10:16, which says "And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd." In the Book of Mormon, in 3 Nephi 15:19,21-24, Christ tells the ancient Americans the meaning of this verse: "But, verily…the Father hath commanded me, and I tell it unto you, that ye were separated from among them [the Jews] because of their iniquity; therefore it is because of their iniquity that they know not of you. And verily I say unto you, that ye are they of whom I said: Other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd. And they understood me not, for they supposed it had been the Gentiles; for they understood not that the Gentiles should be converted through their preaching. And they understood me not that I said they shall hear my voice; and they understood me not that the Gentiles should not at any time hear my voice–that I chould not manifest myself unto them save it were by the Holy Ghost. But behold, ye have both heard my voice, and seen me; and ye are my sheep, and ye are numbered among those whom the Father hath given me."

        220chrisTian, I did read those verses, and you make a very good point. All I can say is that in my church we are taught that this was part of His first coming. I can’t remember where it says it, but somewhere in the Old Testament it says that the first time Christ will come, it will be as a "Prince of Peace", and that He will come the second time as a liberator. I’m not sure where it says that. On when He comes again, in my church we are taught that He will still have His wounds, but only for the convincing of the Jews. Nowhere in the verses you referred me to could I find anything that said He will return without wounds. I couldn’t find anything about it in the bible, but in my church’s Doctrine and Covenants 45: 51-53, Christ says, "And then shall the Jews look upon me and say: What are these wounds in thine hands and in they feet? Then shall they know that I am the Lord; for I will say unto them: These wounds are the wounds with which I was wounded in the house of my friends. I am he who was lifted up. I am Jesus that was crucified. I am the Son of God. And then shall they weep because of their iniquities; then shall they lament because they persecuted their king." We are taught that it is then that the Jews will finally come to realize and believe in Jesus Christ as their promised Messiah.

        Oh, wow, talk about writing a novel…I better go now. πŸ˜‰

      • 220chrisTian says:

        Fire Fairy, I thought more about what you said. I don’t want to offend you but this is what the Bible says. First of all, there’s no mention of America in the Bible. None! Why would God give β€œanother testament/gospel” that directly contradicts the Bible? He never contradicts Himself. He never lies. Testaments: Old and New. There are no more. Matthew 26:28: β€œFor this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.” And regarding Jesus’ hands and feet, Christ humored doubting Thomas by showing him His hands, feet, and side. But Jesus also rebuked him saying, β€œBlessed are they that have not seen and yet have believed” [John 20:29]. 2 Corinthians 5:16: β€œWherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh; yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh [before His ascension], yet now henceforth know we Him no more.” It means we know Christ through the Spirit, i.e. through the Word. The Holy Spirit reveals Christ to us through the Word. β€œWe walk by faith, not by sight” [2 Cor 5:7]. Christ gave the Sermon on the Mount once. Why give it again? Also, why make Americans a chosen people? Jews were God’s chosen people; now it’s all Christians everywhere. The gospel is international. It has been from the beginning. Why make Americans special? Why single them out this way? It’s not biblical.

      • narniafan4ever β™₯ says:

        Aunt Letty….Just so you know, America IS in fact mentioned in the bible….but it is in revelation and that would take some time to explain…and this is really not the place for me to explain it anyways cause this is a Narnia Website, not bible trivia site…lol…unless you want to know…I will explain it then….but I agree with everything else. πŸ˜€

      • Fire Fairy says:

        220chrisTian, all I can say is that Christ told the Americans that the Jews did not know of them because of their iniquity (as mentioned previously). Also, He never said the Americans were a chosen people, because He also told them that after He visited them He would be visiting the lost ten tribes of Israel. I don’t have the time to look up all the scriptures right now. On the wounds in His hands and feet, I think we’ve reached a moot point. At this point, we’re arguing our interpretations of the scriptures, rather than actual scripture itself, so we probably ought to just drop it. When we get to arguing interpretations, you’re getting to a point where we’re using opinion rather than fact, and that gets us nowhere. πŸ™‚

    • 220chrisTian says:

      I thought the Dwarfs were atheists. This issue came up in the "Christian themes in the Last Battle" thread: http://www.narniaweb.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=444 "The dwarves refused to be "taken in" by what they see as a false idea of the existence of God, and consequently are unable to be taken in by God (Aslan) when he is actually present with them. It’s a profound analogy on several levels." … Thanks, Aunt Letty. πŸ™‚

      • narniafan4ever β™₯ says:

        Yeah, that seems to be the case. They don’t believe in Aslan, or want to meet him if he exists. "Dwarfs are for Dwarfs!" lol
        I think that the last battle in general is really quite a profound book with so many parallels! I mean, think about it.

        β€’ The last free nation has fallen…the old Narnia
        β€’ The Shift/Puzzle mix is kind of like the Anti-Christ/false prophet mix.
        β€’ Just as they have Puzzle claim to be Aslan, so will the Anti-Christ claim to be God, but in essence, is not God at all.
        β€’ The Calormen soldiers are like the power mentioned in the bible that tries to force everyone to worship the Anti-Christ or "false Aslan."
        β€’ Only a few have recognized that this is not the real Aslan…(the whole world will wonder after the Anti-Christ)
        β€’ They try to mix the pagan god(s) with the real God…(who really isn’t the real God at all….only claims to be.)
        β€’ The real Narnia is Heaven

        I mean, the list goes on and on! These are just a few that I thought of as I am sitting here. πŸ™‚

        I still think we need some more news on how the Voyage of the Dawn Treader is coming….It has been a while! We were getting updates like every day for a while…I guess I got spoiled?.?.?. *smiles sheepishly* πŸ™‚

      • Fire Fairy says:

        narniafan4ever, don’t get me started! There are so many parallels! There are even some that fit with my religion’s specific views on the end of the world and all that (I’m not saying my religion’s better than everybody else’s, though. Just thought I’d clarify that. πŸ™‚ ) That’s probably why LB is one of my favorite books: it’s tied with MN.

        Agh, I’ve got somewhere to go. πŸ™ I’ll have to come back later. I’ve got so much I want to say. πŸ˜‰

      • Aravis Tarkheena says:

        Ok I get the book is about religion but please don’t make any comments about religion I just want to enjoy Narnia without going to church.

      • narniafan4ever β™₯ says:

        Aravis Tarkheena,

        I respect your comments. We are not trying to make you go to church while you read the book. We are just discussing how we read the book. This is a discussion page! πŸ˜€ Sorry if you are offended by our comments. We aren’t trying to offend anyone. We are just having a conversation.
        I will be praying for you! πŸ˜€

      • Puddleglum says:

        Aravis;
        When those of like interests find one another they will discuss that interest.
        Like narnia4ever I can respect you, But please show us the same respect by not trying to limit our enjoyment of our faith together.

    • Puddleglum says:

      Finally can get back on.
      Aunt Letty, your example of the young calormene was I believe Lewis’s expression of Romans 2:14-16. While I firmly believe that we only have salvation in Christ, He will always try to show even the un-believer.

      • Aunt Letty says:

        Wow, narniawebbers, I’m out of breath from trotting up to that "reply" button again. You guys are truly amazing.

        I see that this topic has caused some discomfort. I hope not enough to scare anyone off. This is a place for all us Narnia fanatics to enjoy each others’ fanaticism, so come one come all! Aravis, if the scriptural discussion isn’t your cup of tea, do start another topic, and we’ll all be glad to join you. There’s lots to discuss. These discussions do tend to veer into the scriptures, though, because that’s squarely where the author was coming from, as you said.

        Fire Fairy, I was just released as RS pres. .

        I hope we can all "enjoy our faith together" and not be like those who consider different beliefs from their own to be unworthy of consideration or respect. That would be Shift the Ape’s way of dealing with the situation.

        Puddleglum, Rom. 2:14-16 expresses what happens with the Calormene perfectly, in my opinion. Or vice versa, as the case is.

        It sounds as though everyone is in agreement that the dwarves are representational of atheists, undaunted unbelievers in the Word. What do you make of the way they are dealt with? What do you think Lewis was trying to express of his personal belief in regard to Aslan’s attitude toward them? Given that the stable door seems to represent an exit from the mortal life, what was Lewis saying about the end condition of those who simply refuse to believe? And, do you agree with his view?

        If anyone wants to hear my thoughts on this, I’ll give them, but I’m more interested in hearing others’ input, if they want to express it.

        And, I’m posting this twice (sorry!!) because I somehow mis-posted it way above here. sorry, sorry…

      • Puddleglum says:

        I’m not sure that this is a perfect "fit" scripturally, but here goes.
        Aslan’s reaction to the dwarves may be compaired to Jesus’s reaction to the rich young ruler. When the man turned away, Jesus made no attempt to chase him down, no forced conversion, no watering down of the gospel to make it less "offensive". Jesus just loved him.

      • Aunt Letty says:

        I hear what you’re saying, Puddleglum, and I agree that there is evidence of compassion and of allowing the dwarves their agency, or freedom of choice. Which is what you and I are scripturally commanded to give to all, in emulation of our Lord, Jesus Christ. This situation with these "atheistic" dwarves has an interesting wrinkle, however.

        What I’m getting at, primarily, is that this scene takes place on the INSIDE of the stable. In other words, these dwarves have exited mortality, and therefore, in the reality that Lewis’ created here, Aslan’s actions constitute a Judgement, in effect. I do not see any evidence of them being cast into any hellish state for their choice. I do see them simply existing in the reality they choose to accept. It’s an interesting little twist on things.

        CofN, while uplifting and thought-provoking, isn’t scripture, nor would Lewis wish it to be treated as such I’m sure, so it’s foolish to look too closely at it for doctrinal implications, nevertheless, I think it possible Lewis was saying something here about his personal beliefs in regard to how God judges the fool and unbeliever.

        (And, before anyone takes offense, the word ‘fool’ here refers to one who has been deceived by untruth, not someone who is necessarily lacking in brains. In fact, often as not, it is the "smart" among us who are easy to fool.)

      • narniafan4ever β™₯ says:

        Well, Aunt Letty….if you remember, the whole world is destroyed at the end of the book. Well, our world will be destroyed once all the believers have been caught up with Jesus and go to the New City. So, they could be representing the fact that all the wicked are destroyed for ever. They aren’t burning Hell forever. God wouldn’t do that. All the wicked are destroyed in, yes, an unquenchable fire…but an unquenchable fire doesn’t mean it never goes out, it just mean no one puts it out. Like, think about a fire in your wood stove; It burns until there is nothing left to burn, then it goes out. So, I think that maybe the dwarfs are just one representation of those who may not worship THE God, or any other god like Tash, but they are still destroyed at the end of time. πŸ™‚
        Just my idea of it….what do you think?

      • Fire Fairy says:

        This is a very interesting discussion. For once I’m actually not going to refer to the bible. The dwarves’ situation actually reminds me of Dante’s Inferno. I don’t know who’s read it, but those who have, the Dwarves’ situation makes me think of limbo, made for the "fence-sitters" in life, because neither Heaven nor Hell would take them in. Their fate was to chase a flag, never being able to catch it, all the while being stung by wasps. The dwarves were "for the dwarves" and couldn’t be "taken in". In essence, they were choosing not to choose, and would therefore never find the happiness nor punishment they could have had.

      • Aunt Letty says:

        yes, narniafan, I think you have it there with, "no one puts it (the fire) out". Hell, or damnation, or destruction is perhaps a state of mind as much as anything. As we’ve said in our last discussion; a choice.

      • narniafan4ever β™₯ says:

        Aunt Letty,

        Just so we are clear….I believe that the Bible doesn’t preach an eternal-burning hell. That would not be something that a loving God would do. He doesn’t delight in the destruction of the wicked. So, it would be even more painful for God to have all these people he created being eternally tortured. God destroys Satan and Hell in the end….then His people along with Him live for eternity with him. πŸ™‚ I mean, how would you be able to let your own child that you had born to be daily tortured for all of his life just because he didn’t obey your commands? I mean, you still love that child, just not his actions. So, God loves everyone and wants them all to be able to live with Him of r eternity. But, God can’t live in the presence of sin. So, he created an easier way than continually sacrificing animals for our sins and had Jesus come and die to be that Ultimate Sacrifice. Now, we just have to accept that gift. But, because of free will and that fact that Satan makes the sinful way seem so pleasant, that some will reject that Gift and as a result have to be destroyed because sin has to be destroyed.

      • Aunt Letty says:

        Yes, the book of Ezekiel has some clear and plain things to say about the subject of God’s will for the wicked and that He does not delight in their destruction. I should give you chapter and verse, (it’s highlighted in my Bible), but I’m so tired and it’s late and I should also be in bed. I’ve stayed up too late, working on my novel.

      • Fire Fairy says:

        narniafan4ever, I can’t back up my claims right now (I’m not sure what verses in the bible back it up), but in my religion class, we talked about how even though God hates to see His children suffer, He is perfect, and therefore perfectly obedient to the laws He set. Justice demands that when a law is broken, a punishment must be endured. It is only through the Atonement of Christ that God can be merciful, because Christ suffered for sins. Even then, the Atonement only takes affect when we do our best. We still suffer, just not as much as we could have. Those who break the law and do not turn to Christ must suffer the entire consequence for their decisions. But, then, Hell will be abolished. We do teach, though, that there will be some that suffer eternally in what we call "Outer Darkness", but that is reserved for Lucifer, his angels, and those who had a perfect knowledge of God and Christ and still denied them and the Holy Ghost. So, in a way, you are right, but I don’t believe Satan will be destroyed, simply because I believe it to be impossible to destroy a spirit, which is precisely what Satan is.

    • narnian resident says:

      you know i think its amazing when we begin to talk about stuff like this. i always knew narnia would bring up conversations like this. well, lets face it, we’re all different. i refuse to say that any religion is the right one because, truly, i have no say in it. i am a firm believer in my own religion, and i will do what i believe to do. indeed, i am to go out and be a "prophet unto the nations". (i think only fellow cristians will understand that) i am not to go out and scold and force others to believe what i believe. ya know why? because we human beings have been given a free choice. we have the reward of free choice, to choose our religion, our beliefs, our faith. and because i am a cristian, and this is what the bible says, this is a promise from God, that though He loves us so much, and wants all of us with Him, He kept a promise He made when man was born. sometimes we never realize it, but we truly have the ultimate freedom of all things: the choice of yes or no. i will still be praying for everyone, because though we have that freedom, i can at least be a help to people in making that choice when the Time comes. one day we will all stand before the Gates, and we will be asked: "yes…or no?"

    • TheScribblingScribe says:

      Sorry- but does this discussion have anything to do with the topic? It’s not that I want to discourage it; but I think we should keep it Narnia based.:) Correct me if I’m wrong, though!

      • Aunt Letty says:

        Depends on your point of view as to what is "Narnia based", Scribe. For instance, Lewis and Tolkien were friends as you probably know, and discussed their views on God and various religious doctrines at length, over a period of years. The Chronicles of Narnia and The Lord of the Rings were written partly as a way to illuminate their personal exigesises. The books and the religious discussions were interrelated.

        So in that sense this discussion and others like it that have been going on here are as "Narnia based" as they could be. Imagine sitting down at Lewis’ table in the pub where the Inklings regularly met and insisting that he keep his discussion "Narnia based", meaning no straying into doctrinal questions.

        Tolkien and Lewis disagreed on some fundamental doctrinal issues and eventually had a years-long falling out with one another. So far, the Narniawebbers seem to be doing pretty well at finding common ground.

  • WilliamLuver13 says:

    When is the new New coming out i’ve been waiting…………

  • Matthias of Redwall says:

    has anyone heard news about who will play Ramandu ??
    I know I keep asking, but I’m curious how they
    are planning on introducing the actor…..perhaps they want to keep it a surprise?
    Anyone have any thoughts on this?

  • Puddleglum says:

    Another thought dealing with the movies themselves. Has anyone heard if there are any plans to make The Magician’s Nephew? You wouild think that they would need that to help explain the professores connection to Narnia, as well as the rings that Peter, and Edmund dig up.

    • Fire Fairy says:

      I’ve heard that they plan on making all seven books into movies.

    • Puddleglum says:

      The good thing about the books, Horse and his boy, and the Magician’s Nephew are that they can be done without the current actor’s. Unless they wanted to re-introduce those who played the older Kings and Queens just before they returned to "our" world.
      But Magician’s Nephew must be done before the Last Battle, for the reasons I’ve stated before.

  • Puddleglum says:

    narnia fan4ever;
    I will make one comment on the "boy-girl" issue discussed on the other page.
    An old poem I will most likely do no justice to goes like this;
    God did not take a bone from Adam’s foot, for him to stand above Eve.
    Nore did He take a bone from Adam’s head for her to stand above him.
    Rather, He took a rib,
    So that Adam may protect Eve under his arm.
    Also that she may be there to support him in his times of weakness.

    • narniafan4ever β™₯ says:

      Exactly Right. I agree with you completely. In a marriage, the man is to protect the woman, and the woman to respect the man. But they are also to help each other….you know, "Be a help-meet" πŸ™‚ God said that it is not good for man to be alone.

    • Lutra's Pearl says:

      That is a really cool way to put it. I think all of the young boys at our church should hear that. Keep the story of Aslan alive!

    • Puddleglum says:

      I honestly cannot remember the authors name, but I put it in cards whenever I’m invited to weddings.

    • Fire Fairy says:

      That’s really cool! Is it okay if I copy it so I can have it as a quote?

  • Nuts4Narnia says:

    ok so I was reading the vdt and for some reason I just dont see Ben Barnes playing Caspian!! I always thought the whole arguement about the accent was dumb and not important but I think that was one of the reasons that I dont see him playing it and also he’s supposed to be blond. I dont know maybe I just got to used to the bbc movies. Comments??

    • Princess Arya says:

      Me too. I got used to the BBC. I think the movie will be fine though when it comes out.

    • Puddleglum says:

      I would have preferred a younger actor for the role. I can see some complications when they try to fit him in at the end by the time they make the Silver Chair.
      Also enjoyed BBC version. Tom Baker was a perfect "ahem" Marsh-Wiggle.
      But I must also admit the people in animal outfits were a little tacky.

      • Fire Fairy says:

        I haven’t seen the second half of the BBC VDT and SC at all. I really should, though. I agree with you, though. The thing about the BBC versions of the movies that bothered my brother and I the most were the way the animals were portrayed. We understood that that was the best technology they had at the time, but we just didn’t find it very believable. Same with the ghosts and spectors in the BBC LWW, and the battle. It really annoyed us that they stood in the same spot and wove a sword around like a little kid would a stick. As much as we loved the stories, we had a hard time watching the BBC movies. The only reason we ever watched them was because it was all we had (we didn’t know about the cartoon version). But that’s probably because we love movies as an art form and are always trying to figure out how they did something and all that.

      • Aunt Letty says:

        oh, my goodness, yes, the funky little beaver costumes…:).

        But, they did a great job of staying with the voice and tone of the books, don’t you think? Much more so than the current movies. I wonder if people who saw the new movies first and then went to the books out of curiosity would be taken aback by the differences of style? Anyone have any experience of this?

        Off-topic; has anyone else noticed that british writers seem to come up with the best stories for childhood and beyond? My kids tend to speak slightly in british vernacular from spending so many hours with Lewis, Tolkien, Rowling, Pratchett, Wynne-Jones, Sutcliff, and others, as well as all the superb british drama we have on video (we don’t do t.v., just video).

      • TheScribblingScribe says:

        Aunt Letty, I have noticed that a lot. I love all those books, and listen to their audio counterparts as well. Sometimes I even find myself slipping into an English accent, because I’ve seen and heard so many English actors perform from these books πŸ˜€ There are very few fiction novels that I can compare to Lewis, Tolkien, Lloyd and Rowling. Perhaps the American culture affects American authors in a negative way…

      • TheScribblingScribe says:

        Also, as I am a writer, I tend to lean towards British-type settings and British speaking characters. I suppose it’s because I spend so much of my reading time with those kinds of books.

      • Aunt Letty says:

        Yeah, I know what you mean. It’s a bit of a liability, what with the whole "write what you know" adage. I only know fictional Britain.

      • Puddleglum says:

        Unfortunatly I must agree with you about most writers in the US. We just do not have many Mark Twains in modern American liturature.
        Though I do hold out hope. Frank Paretti comes to mind, though he has not come up with anything of late. Believe it or not you might find a good story teller in the Christian romances. Mrs. Puddleglum has become quite stuck on some authors, Janette Oake being one, Karen Kingsbury is another.

      • Princess Arya says:

        Whew, I leave for a couple days, come back,and there are a BUNCH of comments…. In any case, nonetheless, I had a hard time believing the BBC adaptations too, Fire Fairy. They just didn’t seem realistic (to top off all the animals and stuff, all the battles were in slow motion!). But Aunt Letty, I think they did a fine job staying in the spirit of the books. There was none of this "save-the-world" epic stuff.

      • Puddleglum says:

        The BBC did have the advantage of more time to fit more of the books dialoge in.
        Two lines I particularly missed in PC;
        When Aslan was restoring Reepacheep’s tail He told him why the mice could talk. After they "freed" His body on the stone table.
        Also, when Aslan tells the Telmarens that they were descended from brigands, Caspian wished to have a more noble liniage. He is told that to be a Son of Adam was enough to make proud the lowest begger, and humble the greatest king.
        I do not have the books in front of me, so I hope I have the quotes right.

      • Aunt Letty says:

        Don’t worry about it, we know what you mean. I’m always quoting them and then later discovering that I didn’t quite get the quote right. You’d think I’d learn to pull a copy off the shelf and check first.

      • Fire Fairy says:

        Here, Puddleglum, I’ve got the book right next to me. I’ll find it for you…

        "Not for the sake of your dignity, Reepicheep, but for the love that is between you and your people, and still more for the kindness your people showed me long ago when you ate away the cords that bound me on the Stone Table (and it was then, though you have long forgotten it, that you began to be TALKING Mice), you shall have your tail again." Sorry about using caps, but I can’t italicize.

        "’You come of the Lord Adam and the Lady Eve,’ said Aslan. ‘And that is both honour enough to erect the head of the poorest beggar, and shame enough to bow the shoulders of the greatest emperor on earth. Be content.’" Oooh, I LOVE that quote!! It just gives me the chills! I’m tempted to write it up to add to my apartment’s quotes (we’re writing up quotes to make our boring white kitchen look a little more interesting!)!

      • narniafan4ever β™₯ says:

        ah….I love that quote, too. πŸ˜€

      • Puddleglum says:

        Thank you Fire Fairy. My copies are buried in boxes right now. Must get them out soon.

      • Fire Fairy says:

        Anytime. πŸ˜‰

  • Peepicheep says:

    Awesome! I wonder what the dragon will look like?

    • TheScribblingScribe says:

      Hopefully a bit better than the BBC one πŸ˜‰

      • Puddleglum says:

        Anything would be better than a man in an ill fitting costume.

      • Fire Fairy says:

        No kidding! I am so excited to see how they do it, especially with today’s technology; imagine, a "realistic-looking" dragon!! How can you make an imaginary, mythical creature look realistic? πŸ˜‰ But, yeah, they’ve already done so well with Aslan, and the trees, and the River God, and the Centaurs, and I could go on and on…. πŸ˜€

      • TheScribblingScribe says:

        Mmm I loved the River God! This’ll be really cool, I can tell! πŸ˜€

      • Puddleglum says:

        They include Reepacheep’s offer to do battle as well. Adds to the character.

      • Puddleglum says:

        Sorry, did not explain myself. When they meet the Dragon/Eustace, I believe that he offers to do single combate with it.

    • Puddleglum says:

      I am just wondering how they will do the scene where Aslan "sheds" Eustace’s skin.

      • Aunt Letty says:

        Yes, there was a whole, multifaceted discussion on that very subject a while back. Too bad we don’t have page numbers on this message board, I could point you to it. It’d be too hard to find at this point, and now I really am off to bed…

      • TheScribblingScribe says:

        Maybe showing it in a shadow cast on a nearby rock, or something?

  • 220chrisTian says:

    Aravis: I’m curious. Why do you not want to talk about Jesus, evangelism, Christianity in Narnia, salvation of cast and crew members, etc? If our religion is real, it will show up everywhere! It’s not private in that sense, even though our experience with Christ is personal. πŸ˜‰ Everyone: my website this time is AslansCountry.com. I’m a mod there. πŸ™‚

  • Aunt Letty says:

    I’m wondering how they’ll handle the scenes where Caspian gets carried away with the adventure of it all at the end of the voyage East and wants to abandon his original quest and his responsibility to Narnia and go onward with Reep and the Pevensies and Eustace. I could see that getting really "creepy", but it’s so simple and natural in the book.

    And the next part, too; where he sees the face of Aslan and comes back to them humbled. I don’t know. I don’t mean to be cynical, but I will be surprised if that purity isn’t lost in movieland’s version of "interesting". I hope not. It shows Caspian in such an admirable light. It doesn’t need jazzing up, in my opinion. Like the stone table scene in LWW, I really want that part to play out the way it does in the book.

    • Fire Fairy says:

      Hmm, what to say to that?

      You’re very right, though: it’ll be easy for them to get carried away cinematically. Although, I must say, images of Tumnus and Aslan appearing in the fire leap into my head… But anyways, I really hope they do that part right (like everything else…).

    • tenthofthatname says:

      That’s one of my favorite scenes in the book. Honestly I feel like the movie will make it bittersweet the same way they made the ending of PC more melancholy than the book narrative suggested but I enjoyed that very much. Lewis does write the farewell between Caspian and the others was very sad even though he doesn’t actually go into detail. That doesn’t mean the film should have to gloss over it too. I would really like for these two scenes to be as sad as suggested. Caspian looking like Miraz for a moment is an excellent insight into his character, his ambition, and how in the end he does the right thing by not breaking faith with his people. I honestly feel like the current film team will pull it off well, they’ve already had Caspian demonstrate how he was "not one like you" in PC.

    • Aunt Letty says:

      I guess I was thinking of Peter and how his character was shifted around to make his story more interesting in PC.

      That bit at the end of VDT with Caspian wanting to change his quest is probably rife with drama enough as it is, without movieland enhancement. You’re probably right. It may even be better in the film.

  • Matthias of Redwall says:

    I must say, I’m curious as to how they will
    depict Aslan’s country in the film…will they show
    only light as Reepicheep sails to AC, or will we actually
    be able to see it?

    • Fire Fairy says:

      Oooh, I am so excited to see how they do that!! Especially since C.S. Lewis was actually quite precise on what it looked like. I really do hope they make it so we can see it!

    • Puddleglum says:

      I am worried how they intend to do the scene in which the sheep/Aslan, becomes the Lion/Aslan.
      By far one of the most symbolic scenes in the whole series.

      • narniafan4ever β™₯ says:

        Yeah, me too. I love that part in the book! I can’t wait to see how all of this comes out. πŸ˜€

      • Fire Fairy says:

        The subject of the depiction of Aslan in the movies is a very touchy one among many of the Narnia fans. I feel the same way as you do. The lamb turning into the lion is incredibly important. I also hope they do the albatross right. Another Aslan appearance that could easily be botched up. Especially since this is the first film where we will see Aslan in a form other than his familiar Lion form.

  • narnia fan7 says:

    Im ok with it