Gresham Calls Caspian/Susan Kiss ‘Nonsense’
ChristianityToday has posted an interview with Douglas Gresham (co-producer, Lewis’ stepson). You can read it here.
There is one part of the interview I would like to comment on:
CT: There were early rumors that Eustace, after he becomes a dragon, would fight with the sea serpent. That’s not in the book.
Gresham: Some folks were attracted by the idea that the dragon—Eustace—would earn his redemption by having a huge fight with the sea serpent. But I don’t think that earning one’s redemption is possible. It’s a free gift from Jesus. So that scene is not in the movie. That was a nonnegotiable point for me. [Since this interview, CT has seen the film, and would contest Gresham’s assertion that the dragon Eustace doesn’t have a “huge fight with the sea serpent.” Looked pretty huge from our seat.]
Putting this in context, and keeping past reports in mind, it seems much more likely that Gresham was not denying that DragonEustace fights a sea-serpent. Rather, he was saying that the idea of Eustace earning his redemption was removed from the film. We already know that the writers originally wanted this, but Michael Flaherty (Walden Media president) set them straight (report).
The most interesting part of the interview is when Gresham talks about the controversial kiss between Caspian and Susan at the end of Prince Caspian. He mentions an interview he did with NarniaWeb where he famously advised fans to worry more about global warming than a C/S romance. “I knew there wasn’t going to be a romance,” Gresham says, “but I wasn’t going to say so.” CT mentions the kiss, and Gresham responds: “[…] I agree that it shouldn’t have been in the movie; I think it was nonsense. But it wasn’t something I was going to dig my heels in and scream and bite the carpet about.”
Thanks to ‘Jo-Anna/johobbit.’
As much as I DESPISE the kiss and think it totally flies in the face of everything Lewis was trying to do thematically with Prince Caspian… I think Gresham made the right call to allow it. It seems like he made his opinions on the kiss very clear but Adamson really wanted it.
You can't hire a director and then start telling him what he can't do. That's creatively asphyxiating. The key is to hire a director you trust and then let him do what he wants to do.
Yes, thats very true. While He does have a right to disagree with what He (Adamson) wanted to do, He very well couldn't have done much about I suppose :/. Its just too bad that Adamson choose to make that choice as a director of the movie, thus ruining a good deal of the original message of PC.
Thanks for saying that! I agree. While I absolutely loved PC (a little bit more than LWW, I have to say), the only part that disappointed me was "Susaspian." However, it was, in the end, AA's call, and he made it. I know there's plenty of us book-lovers who were, to say the least, unhappy about that, but I guess the general movie-goer liked it. It was cinematically well done (in my opinion).
The kiss was just part of an attempt to grab the regular everyday moviegoer….it's always been like this with movies from books, things are watered down or changed to draw people in that haven't read the book….sad really. I didn't really care for the fact that AA made Caspian have that awful accent in PC either…the kiss and the accent and the whole fight in the tube station….all watered down to appeal to everyday moviegoer….but then most films tend to have the 'sophomoric' sequel slump. VDT is however really more along the lines of LWW….the vibe is pretty much different than when PC came out….I wonder if it's the Christmas season, that definitely makes this movie a lot more attractive. Sorry for the ramble….
While I agree with your point in terms of the kiss and the fight, I disagree in terms of the accent- it was an artistic decision, meant to give the world more depth and ultimately it helped in making Narnia come to life. I beleive the accent, is one of those additions that even though it wasn't in the book, it still remained loyal in a way to its source…
I disagree. I don't think he made the right call. They should have tried to find a new director because the kiss as well as the dumbing down of Aslan's divinity makes it clear to me that AA didn't get it at all.
What's done is done. Adamson was hired, and by the time the idea for the kiss came up, it was too late. Firing a director in the middle of production because of one decision (although a really significant, terrible one I admit) would be absurd.
You could say this shows they should not have hired Adamson in the first place. This is a valid argument.
Well i think most likely that is why he was let go after the fact, but i do think that they should have put their feet in the sand about this. I know how hard it is because clearly Gresham worked hard to get most of the romantic scenes out of the film, but it is still an overwhelming part of the character development of Susan and Caspian in this film in my opinion and i think he should have said there can't be any added romantic scenes.
I know how hard it is though when you think it is a give and take and that he had to give them something, but i disagree with that To me no extra romances, Eustace does not earn his undragoning, and Aslan's divinity are lines in the sand and really it seems they have all be crossed which is why the films are no longer Narnia.
You know i am fine with all of the structural changes in the film, but not the character changes. Susan, Caspain, and Aslan just aren't the same people in PC at all and it seems that in VotDT Aslan may not be himself again. I will wait and see on that. Just a week to go.
I agree with glumPuddle about Adamson. He shouldn't of been hired.
I agree that the Susan/Caspian kiss wasn't the best idea but I wouldn't say AA should not have been hired, he did do a very good job with LWW.
i really dont get what the big deal is!!!!!it was just a little kiss!!!in my opinion andrew did a terrific job with both movies and he deserves big praise for it!!!!!!even though i agree the kiss was uncalled for given they didnt have enough romance to kiss,but it was just a little mistake.
ps:aslan was perfect,i dont know what you're talking about!!!!!!!
Aslan is not Aslan in the films and i am fine with AA should have been fired. However you want to say it. Maybe the best they could do at that moment was just wait him out and fire him after. Either way he crossed the line and that was it for me.
I still like the films only because of the echo of Narnia, but not because they are Narnia. If i think of them as being Narnia then i just dislike them.
You're right. The best thing to do is to let the director put the kiss in, and then let the movie bite the dust with disappointing box office results and thumbs down reviews. That way the message will be clearly communicated that audiences want C.S.Lewis' storytelling, and NOT Andrew Adamson's storytelling. Many Narnia fans that I know thought the kiss was ridiculous as well, and despised Adamson's perversion of Lewis' classic story.
That’s ridiculous… PC failed (if you can really say 400 MD is a failure) due to the bad script. The kiss it’s the most unimportant thing in the movie. Narnia movies are made to attract not only christian audiences but families in general, that’s why they put that little “romance” between Susan an Caspian. Actually, I think if they would’ve developed a more innocent and childish romance from the preproduction, it would’ve looked better than the forced and unnatural relationship they have in the movie.
Andrew Adamson has proved to be a good director as his projects get a decent box-office, but I can’t say the same about his screenwriter abilities.
while book purists had a cow about this barely perceptible attraction, I think the main failure was poor pacing, poor editing, endless battles, zero character development, and ZERO HAPPINESS FACTOR! I walked out of the theater totally bewildered as to what movie franchise I had just witnessed for an excruciatingly long 2 1/2 hrs. I thought there movie had ended multiple times before it actually did, ( after the trees attacked,after the bridge scene, after the reep tail restoration, after the river god, after the parade,) it just felt like it would never end. Then there was only a 30 second victory scene, then more draggy stuff. No sense of elation, or warm wrap up. too much muttering in barely perceptible accented voices. I had no idea what was going on during most of the movie the first time, I can't imagine dragging a kid to that.
I'd agree with pretty much everything Shelly Belly said. After all the dark stuff, we really needed more of a happy ending than just a blink and you'll miss it parade and a short farewell scene. Honestly, it almost felt like when you're writing an essay answer on an exam and there's only a few minutes left and you go from writing an elegant answer to a crappy rushed one just to get finished before the end of time.
well i dont despise the kiss, i actully thought it was sweet and it added more to the movie, but their wasn't much chemistry between caspian and susan during the movie they never showed any affection to each other until the kiss. They might have added in because caspian actully marries another girl in the VDT and they were just trying to add drama to VDT with caspian and susan.
Nice to know Gresham doesn't agree with the non-sense that WE all don't like either 🙂 (first :P)
Wiglaf
yeah, he is using his advantage of authority to ensure that the movie stays true, and that is WONDERFUL.
What angers me is that he has to fight these Hollywood people so much to keep at least some things true to the book.
yeah, but they are the ones putting their money on the line, not gresham.
No biting the carpet, but there was a fair share of weeping and gnashing of teeth. 😉
Was totally ok by me overall.
It's wrong. To Caspian, Susan is a figure out of his bedtime stories. Queen Susan the Gentle from the ancient past.
One of the key themes in the Narnia books (PC especially) is "the myth becoming fact," which Lewis famously talked about in an essay. This is the idea that converted Lewis to Christianity. Caspian's awe upon discovering that his heroes (Susan included) are real reflects Lewis awe upon discovering the "myths" of the Bible were true.
In the film, they set up a Caspian/Susan romance without ever setting up Caspian's awe. Caspian's first reaction upon seeing Susan should have been awe. Instead of it was "whoa, she's hot."
This idea is SO fundamental to all the books, and the kiss spits in its face.
I have to agree with you in this point.
Mostly agree with you. I do think he had some awe (along with being attracted to her.) I also agree with the kiss not being in there, but I would have rather had the deleted scene with the archery contest than the kiss. The archery scene was at least based on the book (albeit loosely and with a lot of flirting). But I'm glad that it wasn't the 'central' theme of the movie, just a few longing glances, and a sweet kiss, and that's it. If I really wanted to argue it's usefulness (which there isn't basically) one could *almost* say that it sets up for Caspian's marriage. Again the romance was basically stupid, but it's there, and we deal. I've finally become ok with it.
To be fair, I believe I stand in the minority. I think I was the only one our group that did not make a disgusted noise when viewing at the PC Lion Party.
Not only does the kiss spit in the face of the idea that is so fundamental to all the books, but the kiss (and the romance) was very poorly directed.
I like watching movies that have romance in them (like Amazing Grace) because the romance is directed very well. But Adamson's directing on the Prince Caspian romance was so poor, cheap, and cheesy.
It made me cringe – not just because it wasn't true to the book, but because it was so awkward due to poor directing (and the fake Spanish accent made it even more awkward).
You said it exactly, Glumpuddle. That is the strongest and most overlooked argument against Suspian. Sure, maybe the romance had it's sweet moments…but it so twisted the themes of the books. It really wasn't worth it.
For my two cents, Susan and Caspian were a lot younger in the books than they were in the movie. For them to have kissed in the books would have been more weird than for them to have kissed in the movie. That said, I admire Lewis because he made books that felt realistic, but also made you believe in higher ideals than what we have today. For instance, an alien Prince descended from pirates would never kiss one of the four high sovereigns of Narnia. Never! That would have been out of line. He might have been attracted to her, but, if he had any decency at all, he would have restrained himself. Similarly, if the High Queen of Narnia had initiated the relationship, Caspian, being the noble soul which he was, would have got the wrong idea about high queens. In either case, I always loose a little respect for Caspian ans Susan when I see "the kiss". So, although I can understand why the filmmakers put it there, "the kiss" doesn't give either personage involved a good reputation in my mind.
this just gave me more reason to love mr. gresham 😀
Hehe! Me too! 😉
Well, what is done is done. Just be thankful Luspian(screams)is NOT in Dawn Treader.
yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa, that would have been kinda weird seeing as she is suppose to be 15 in the movie, and King Caspian an Adult lol.
She's not actually supposed to be 15. She is supposed to be 13 in the movie. It's Georgie who has just turned 15, but she filmed it aged 13-14.(In the book she is 10.)
But your point is even more valid this way.
Actually, Lucy's 12 in VDT, but I agree with your point, since Caspian is about 19-20.
Umm…Caspian is 16 and Lucy is 11. Edmund is 13, Susan is 15, and Peter is 16. Does anyone know how old Aslan is?
lets give the moviemakers a pass as they probably wanted the ages a little older to be able to get better acting out of them( case in point- check out the heinous acting in the bbc version). Can you imagine those performances being released in theatres today? its expensive to make this stuff- 300 million with production and marketing i heard
Ugh, that reminds me of that old leaked script from 2 years ago…wow, that brings back memories. That was one scary script (for us book-lovers. It might have made a good movie [possibly], but it would not have the right to say "Based on the Voyage of the Dawn Treader, by C.S. Lewis").
can it still be found somewhere? i couldn't find it, i'd like to read it-
I'd like to read it too!
I'm fairly certain it's been scrubbed from the internet. Your only chance of viewing it would be if someone saved it to their computer somewhere and I suspect they would get into legal trouble should they post it anywhere.
Having a romance between Caspian and Lucy, while at the same time having a romance between Caspian and Ramandu's daughter would be very much like a James Bond movie, because in every Bond movie there's always two women. Maybe that's why they chose a director who directed a Bond movie.
Umm… Technically there was no romance between Caspian & Lucy — At least I don't think that there was any. I think he was just glad to see her and Edmund back in Narnia. As for Lucy, she was a girl trying to grow up, she's at that point in her life where she was just trying to figure things out. It wasn't a bad thing if she was crushing on Caspian, but I don't think it would go anything further than that. I'm sure she was well aware that Caspian could and would never see her more as Lucy, Susan's little sister. The way I see it, Caspian probably consider her more like a little sister as well…
I think an attraction first from susan, then later from lucy would have seemed really gross- too incestuous-
There is no Lucian outside of the creepy minds of random fangurls writing fanfics on the internet. There's no hint of Caspian being interested in Lucy in the film and it would be thoroughly revolting to even consider doing such a thing.
Amen! If there were a romance between them, I'd sue the director. But I like what Douglas Gresham said. And I'm glad he didn't make a big deal out of it even though I truly hateed the romance between Susan and Caspian
THAT WOULD BE SCARY!!! I mean there is friendship in it but not romance thank goodness
I meant to put between them
Is soooo interesting to see his views on the kiss, like, 2 1/2 years later lol. I loved this interview though, very… blunt? Down to earth? Informative? LOL ty for posting it =)
Nice analysis, glumPuddle.
I am not convinced at all that it isn't going to seem like Eustace is earning his undragoning. Everything we have heard has looked very bad to me. Aslan might not say it, but still. Show and not tell.
I have been fairly spoiler-free for the past few weeks…so you can take or leave this…
But based on what little I've read, I don't think it will seem like Eustace earned back his humanity.
I think the scene will not miss the point, but it might lessen the power of the point. I'll get back to you in about a week…
….I agree that the film may weaken/water down the point of grace and redemption.
I also haven't seen the film yet. It is just that like this article says there is a big battle with a sea serpent right before Aslan changes Eustace back. A week to go though and then we can discuss this further. I just doesn't look good to me.
maybe the battle was an expansion on the book where eustace finally developed courage and honor enough to attack an enemy instead of being so useless- remember when he broke caspian's second best sword, and the crew was impressed-
Yes, but in the book that happens after his undragoning.
I have to say more. I know it is very tricky, but i really think it must be Aslan that comes to him first and not because of anything Eustace did. It is just so important because nothing that you do, not even asking means anything. Eustace looks up lost and confused and not knowing what is going to become of him to see Aslan walking towards him. It is just very important that it be done correctly.
I will wait and see at this point. That is all we can do.
gotta pander to the touchy non-christians in the audience of today….(and that's not includng you "non-touchy" non -christians) although i personally would have taken a "Passion of the Christ" approach and amped up the christianity then plead with the churches to show up- look at how POC did! 400 million for an independent flick? they could have been exactly true to the books-
I think people on here try to sound so grown up! Although I am getting close myself, I like the aspect of romance in Prince Caspian. I think it made the movie more interesting, and have a little back storyline.
I think people are being way to serious about it also. Most of you talk about it like it should become the third testament of the Bible or something.
Agreed. I think *some* of the book purists on here tend to get a little carried away. If you pick apart every little minute change from the text, you are sucking all the joy out of these movies and basically spoiling everything for yourself.
The kiss was fine. And it took up about 2 seconds of a 2 and a half hour movie. Please.
the kiss was dumb…but it didn't ruin the movie. The awful script (made completetly up of one-liners) did that.
I agree- as someone who purposely didn't read the book before the PC movie (so i wouldn't be aggravated by changes)and as a non biased viewer- the romance aspect was barely noticeable, and that tiny peck was just a sweet surprise- as an adult viewer I felt it fleshed out the movie and make it more complete and well rounded, to balance out all the head -bashing. I really enjoyed it and wished they had pursued the idea a bit more, actually. Add a little more character development in a movie that basically had NONE (just a bunch of crabby people traipsing around)–I agree the direction of it was clumsy, it could have been so much more, and having susan be so bitchy all the time- i didn't even pick up on her attraction to him till repeat viewings.The kiss seemed to come out of left field-I thought they needed the archery scene to establish the attraction more- And" logically" – I cannot see how you could have Ben Barnes standing next to you and not have even a hint of attraction- he looks like a model , for Aslan's sake!
[…] This post was mentioned on Twitter by NarniaWeb.com, Daniel James. Daniel James said: RT @NarniaWeb: Gresham talks about the Caspian/Susan kiss. http://bit.ly/hmAyUI […]
Thank you, thank you, THANK YOU!!!! Susan and Caspian were totally out of character in that part of the movie. The kiss ruined the end of the movie for me.
As for the Eustace stuff…I'll have to wait and see for myself before I make any comments. Although I do like what Gresham said about the redemption stuff! 🙂
i totally agree on you with that. i was like "whoah, wth it is, this should have been happening at the first place" when i saw it. I think this scene was deleted.
i mean shouldnt.
having seen the movie I can tell you that there is a fight, but it isn't clear one way or another weather this means he 'earns' his redemption. some may see it that way, but it's not very strongly suggested. and gresham has just earnt even more of my respect, for disagreeing with su/casp, and at the same time recognizing AA was in authority.
I feel like not only was the Caspian/Susan romance unnecessary, but it also seemed out of place and underdeveloped (if it had to be developed at all). It didn't really develop much until the end, and when they kiss, it's like, "Whaaaat??? They like each other that much??" There wasn't much time given to them falling in love, and then to kiss in front of a huge crowd like that when they knew they wouldn't marry anyway….. A hug would have been more appropriate. Oh well. Glad to know Mr. Gresham thinks it's nonsense too. 🙂
yeah, i was caught totally by surprise too- especially with how cold she acted towards him for the whole movie- if she was trying to portray she was playing it cool with him, she really should have been coached by the director that she was being too understated. The acting by most of them was WAY too understated IMHO anyway- the whole movie's personality just seemed so cold- like they were totally different people- compared to the LWW
really? because I thought it was one of the few things in that movie that actually got developed and had a storyline! I didn't like the suspian\kiss thing at all but that whole movie felt very choppy to me and that was one thing that stayed constant and got developed.
I do know that they were buddies!
I am tired of people complaining about Suspian. I'll say this, and then I'll shut up. I support Suspian and I used to despise Liliandil, but then two months ago, I realized that this whole "conflict" between Suspian fans and Lispian fans is pointless. I want this to stop (it's been TWO years, guys!), but before I get yelled at and possible get "banned" from NW, I will say this and shut up: I think the kiss was necessary… for the movie, but not the book.
In the books, it went from LWW to HHB. In the movies, it went from LWW to PC, skipping HHB. I think that slight romance between Susan and Caspian was necessary, because it explained in HHB that she was very beautiful and was courted by many princes, especially Prince Rabadash. But they didn't make HHB into a movie after LWW, so they added that slight romance (and the kiss) into PC to show how Su and her siblings had grown up, and they were no longer as young as they were in LWW; therefore, it shows that Susan had grown into a beautiful young woman, and that some men are attracted to her.
In that guide to the Voyage of the Dawn Treader book by Devin Brown, it said this in the introduction (talking about the kiss), "…What about the film's famous kiss? While in Lewis's original, Caspian and Susan never kiss or even hold hands, can it be argued that Andrew Adamson was keeping with the spirit of the Chronicles in adding this kiss? Perhaps…" (then it talks about Su in LWW and HHB then Caspian with Liliandil in VDT).
"…Andrew Adamson had modest-sized books that allowed him to expand and extend some elements. A wonderful illustration of this expansion in the first film was the way we were shown the bombing raid on London, which was the catalyst for sending the children to the professor's. So how can we judge whether these expansions or additions are in keeping with the spirit of Lewis's original? If we look at the present and not just in the book itself, but in the other Chronicles as well, we can decide what might have been in character for each of the protagonists. While we will certainly disagree on some minor elements, we may expect to agree on the major ones. For example, no one has suggested that Edmund should have done any kissing!"
So that was were I got most of the idea. And also according to Mayor Wilkins's comment (http://www.narniaweb.com/2010/11/another-video-new-footage-and-plot-spoilers/comment-page-1/#comment-30609), "I think we all need to remember that films and books are different things. Things that work in the book will not necessarily translate well onto film. …There will be changes to every book adaptation you will ever see. The credits say "BASED ON the book by C.S. Lewis" for a reason." I agree with him. In books, you have narrators telling what the characters are thinking or feeling, but in the movies, they don't. Won't it be a little annoying having a narrator narrate on almost ever few minutes of the movie? That's why the characters have to act it out, so things would be expressed differently in the movie. Would you like to hear a narrator's voice in PC saying, "Susan grew into a beautiful young woman and back in the Golden Age, she had many suitors." No. So instead of that annoying narrator's voice, they put in that little romance and the kiss to explain it.
It's not that big of a deal, really. I think it was necessary, especially to people who haven't read the books. Maybe they didn't read LWW or HHB and read that Susan was known for her beauty and many men asked for her hand in marriage. The romance in PC shows how Susan, along with Peter, Edmund, and Lucy, had all grown up. They were no longer those children in LWW. They've grown. So, yes it was quite unnecessary for some of you, but if they made HHB after LWW, then there might've been no kiss in PC. But since they've been doing the "Pevensie trilogy" first, it was necessary to put that kiss scene in PC.
So there's my view. Argue all you want, criticize me, yell at me, delete this post- whatever! I just want to say this to try to make a point out. If I'd made this point out a few months ago, it wouldn't have been very pretty. But I have grown myself, and I realize this is a pointless topic to argue on. "What's been done is done." It's been two years, guys. Come on! Let's stop looking back at the past and look at the future! VDT is just next week (today for some countries), and then if it's a success (which I'm positive it'll be), there'll be SC, then MN, HHB, then LB! Long live Aslan! Come on guys, we could all agree on this! Aslan is awesome, and so is Narnia! We're all Narnia fans, and I don't think we should have problems between us just because of some kiss scene in PC. Come on guys, can't we just forget about this? I'm sure there's a lot more topics about Narnia that we could talk about besides this whole kiss scene.
Seriously! It's been two years!
I will say this to a suspian and then I will shut up. Most Suspians make it so easy to start conflicts. The reason why there is conflicts is because that slight romance and that kiss didn't belong or should have ever been thought of in the first darn place. Believe what you want to believe but that wasn't AA's intention on why he added that stupid wasting kiss!!!!!!!! AA reasons was basically because the actors are both gorgeous and had nada to do with the story one bit!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So of course there's conflict. If i was the stepson or stepdaughter of a famous writer I'd be mad about this kind of change too! the whole suspian thing is uncalled for because it wasn't a thought out process.
First off, they are currently making the movies in the same order that books were written. LWW was written first, and PC a year later. HHB a few years after that. The books have since been re-numbered. So your argument doesn't hold up. Lewis did not feel the need to establish how desirable Susan was to princes when he wrote PC, so why should the filmmakers?
But either way…Which of these points do you think is more important?
1. Caspian is awe of Susan. She is a figure out of myth and legend.
2. Susan was beautiful and many princes desired her.
The first point is FAR FAR FAR FAR more important. It is CENTRAL to what Lewis was getting at when writing Prince Caspian. You seem to be arguing that they sacrificed the most important point in the entire book because they wanted to convey a rather insignificant point.
I agree with Douglas Gresham: The kiss was nonsense.
For fun and to answer your question gp the 1st one sounds to be the legit choice AA should have gone with. caspian XI the attraction Caspian/Susan had would be the same thing if you had a romance with a Bibical prophet. It's out of place and down right dirty!
While I personally don't care for the Caspian/Susan romance, I don't think it's right for people to start throwing stones at each other and calling names and fighting about it. To call people "Suspians" and "Lispians" is starting to sound like church divisions, and yet it's not a matter of eternity and doesn't help anything. Of course, everyone may have their own views and feel strongly about it, but there's no need to be nasty about it in either direction. Not everyone needs to hold the same opinion as we do, especially because the argument won't matter in eternity. While I'm pretty sure C. S. Lewis would have disliked the Caspian/Susan romance, I don't think he'd approve of all the flame-throwing. I don't think Jesus does either.
Just my two cents. 🙂
Yes agreed! Whole-heartedly!
I agree. I think people are taking this way to seriously. It's fiction people. It's a novel with fauns, centaurs, minotaurs, merpeople, goblin, etc. The 21 curses of Revelation aren't going to fall on us for not going by the book.
I totally, totally agree!! Thank you for saying this!! I can't stand C+S, but one of my best friends here on NW is a huge fan of C+S! I don't know how many times we've talked about how much hate she garners PERSONALLY from C+S haters. Seriously, C.S. Lewis would be very sad, I think, to see how much flaming goes on around this issue. I agree in thinking he wouldn't be happy about the romance, but I think he'd be even less happy about the dispute.
Keep your opinions people, but quit getting at each others throats over it!
I wouldn't exactly label it "fighting", but a literary discussion with passion. CS Lewis and his buddies had literary discussions and heated disagreements all the time, for entertainment and intellectual stimulation.
High Queene Shelly Belly,
I definitely don't mind the literary discussion with passion. 🙂 My concern is with the hateful attitudes that come across on both sides often. 🙂 I think we can discuss opinions and thoughts without being nasty about it.
Way to go, Caspian XI. 😉
We're pretty much on the same page, here.
Whoops, I think my computer messed up… This is _not_ the post I clicked reply to. Sorry!
*gasp* Oh no, yes it was! Holy cow, could someone delete this comment and hand me a cup of highly caffeinated coffee please? XD
AGREED! LONG LIVE ASLAN!!!
I DON'T DISLIKE LISPIAN!!! I'M TIRED OF THIS CONFLICT!!! CAN'T WE JUST STOP AND LET GO?!?!?!?!??!
Caspian XI you're the one saying you want this conflict to stop yet you post something that will offend others siding with the complete opposite. While I agree that the conflict should end, I'll have to side with DamselJillPole and glumPuddle on this. So basically in HHB Susan should make out with all her suitors like a feminine Dorian Gray because she's the most beautiful in the Golden Era? That's basically what you're saying.
Susan is Myth becoming Fact, like glumpuddle said a few years ago, not myth becoming my girlfriend. Admittingly the kiss would have fit better if there was a basic properly thought out plot for Susan/Caspian, but like Damsel said, there wasn't. All the Suspian scenes were thrown in a few minutes before shooting because of how the actors looked and ignored the characters reasons.
The kiss came out spontaneous, kind of like a girl walking down the street and kissing a guy just to do it because he's good looking. It's missleading and unnecessary, esspecially being done when you are abandoning something you're never going to see again.
I know this conflict doesn't seem right or seems crazy to you. Trust me I think it is as well and I want it to stop more then you do, but when something unnecessary is added like this people from both sides can't help but break conflict. You have the Caspian/RD supporters who are true fans of Narnia, I mean true fans who grew up with these stories and respect the themes as they are told and CS Lewis's different types of love and none of them consisted of romance to make these stories any good. So not to be rude, don't blame the Caspian/RD supporters for being upset. The Caspian/Susan supporters can't help but break because they thought Caspian and Susan will end up together but they see it's not going to happen because they know or heard about the Caspian/RD relationship so now some blame CS Lewis or bash the story (im saying that this is you) but most suspians I came across and my friends like Damsel on fanfic, youtube and on here Suspian fans are always the ones who break the conflicts, they bash us, torment us, hack us, etc, it gets really bad all because of an unwise decision from a director.
Support what you want to support, but don't feel like you can put down the people who grew up with these stories and likes them for what they are too.
I meant to say (Im not saying that this is you) in the fourth paragragh, sorry!
Well stated facts King Tirian!!! 😀
Caspian XI
I'm absolutely agree with you about two difference between book and movie.and what about the conflict..Today,when I've seeing a part about Star,I've feeling myself like a dragon..she is not bad,no she's very beautiful and of course kind and pretty.But i suppose it's treason of Caspian to Susan to choose the Star:-(
QStheG Caspian chooses star because he truly loves her and got to know her a lot better for months instead of a few days with a queen he didn't get to know. Lilliandil/Caspian is better!
I don't want to have any dispute with you.We're all have own opininon
I'm not trying to dispute with you either, by the way what I said wasn't an opinion it was 100.100.100.100% fact!
Yeah it begins..A fact in the movie is Caspian's love to Susan.It's a reasonable fact too
There were some changes in PC which needed to be made and some which were completely and utterly stupid.
The changes which needed to be made:
– The change of order. It wouldn't have worked if the four leads didn't appear for HALF the film.
The changes which were completely and utterly stupid.
– Random castle take scene. A lot of the second half of the book was changed around too much and it was way longer than it needed to be therefore it dragged on.
– Suspian's romance. At least someone acknowledges that the romance was nonsense. THANK YOU DOUGLAS GRESHAM!
There were a number of reasons I mostly liked the Night Raid as a fan of the book.
In the book, Lewis mentions several battles Caspian had with Miraz. It would have taken far too long to do all of them, so they combined them all into one big battle. Much more cinematic.
And, just like the book, it ends with the good guys being at their lowest point and realizing they need to seek help. In the book, that help is the horn. In the movie, that help is Aslan.
It also emphasized one of the most important ideas in the book: The sadness of the old days being gone. The fact that the Night Raid ends so violently is a wake up call to both Peter and the audience: This isn't LWW! The old Narnia has passed away…and it must be restored.
The Night Raid is an example of using a change to honor the spirit of the book in a more cinematic way.
The night raid was a great add, though I would have preffered it before the PEvensies met PC.
Well said, Glumpuddle! I kind of liked the night raid because it brings out how they could not win the battle without Aslan's help… they went in without his guidance and help, thinking they could do it in their own strength, and they failed. I think it also shows what selfish pride (Peter and even Caspian too) can do. The only thing I didn't like about that part was the stereotypical "You killed my father" thing (where Caspian confronts Miraz). It's okay for Inigo Montoya, but I thought it was kind of unnecessary in PC. 🙂
yeah, the night raid is based on comments in the book, i thought it was a great add, just the pacing was off, too drawn out-
The action and emotion of the night raid was the best part of the movie. Unlike most of PC, it actually had a plot and was not a bunch of one-liners.
they could have had fast paced intercutting between caspian's adventures and the pevensies to keep them in the film more- in a kinder gentler age- 20 years ago, they wouldn't have feared a scene involving a campfire story- -re:castle scenes- he had to justify the overinflated cost of building it, and establish castle scenes to drive videogame and playset tie-in sales-
I used to hate the nightraid, until about 5 days ago actually I was thinking about it and realized it's just a reimagining of the battle in the book that takes place right before the Pevensies arrive. Part of me wishes they could have done it w\o the Pevensies there but I can see why they did it the way they did. What bugs me more is how they totally cut out the part where Caspian meets the Old Narnians for the first time, and I also didn't like how they changed the meeting of Caspian and Peter\Ed\Susan\Lucy.
LOL Gresham is such a cool guy, he's almost impossible not to like!
And he's right, and I don't just think that because of the reasons in the comments, but also because Susan was *moving away* from Narnia and this really kind of brought her closer to Narnia; I just don't get WHY they would want a romance? It was fine without that. Probably just to make a connection from the horn.
One could argue that *for the movies* Susan drifts not only because she doesn't believe in Narnia, but also because of a failed/doomed romance. Therefore, she gets into materialistic items and starts becoming "vain."
Susan realy does have the saddest stories of all the pevensies: she thinks of narnia as fantasyland in childhood, grows up becuz she has2 and then shes left in London while all of her family dies. Shes the seed that fell with weeds in the parable Jesus told and got choked up by the world. C.S.Lewis couldn't b more tragic.
they could be establishing her growing into her later character for Last Battle, and Ben is too hot to ignore! let's be real-
Can we start a petition or something to get him to direct all future films? He's pretty much awesome and actually likes the books. All we hear from everyone else involved in production is how uncinematic the books are and thinly veiled digs at Lewis.
I agree that we should. Even though I'm starting on my ideas for a remakes. i'd love to join your petition!
Gresham has no directing experience as far as I know. What makes you think he could handle a huge film production? Very few people are able to do that.
It couldn't be worse than what we've gotten from the experienced directors. 😛
^ Very True!
Bookwyrm, that statement couldn't be more ignorant. I love Gresham, but the movies would be as crappy as the BBC series if he directed it.
Wow, aren't you a sweetheart? 😛 Firstly, that comment was blatantly tongue-in-cheek. Maybe you might want to consider lightening up and quit coming out swinging over every tiny comment a purist says? Secondly, how do you know what kind of job he would do? Seems a bit disrespectful to assume he would be an incompetent director.
well, what they really mean is that the books are too high principled and "old-fashioned" for today's superficial, agnostic, ADD -riddle TV brainwashed mushbrains of today…LOL
riddled
YAHOOOOOO!!! i just watched Narnia 3 VDT 3D yesterday, December 3 in SM Mall of Asia cinema 3 here in The Philippines! ( wow!that's a lot of 3's there huh! Lolz! ) THE EXPERIENCE WAS AWESOMEEE!!! i just hoped that its also available in IMAX ..for sure it wil b a one of a kind adventure. For me, Will Poulter is the best actor! He did portrayed the character of Eustace very well…In some shots of Ben, he looks like Jake Gylenhall in Prince of Persia..but he looks so handsome! Especially Skandar..he is so good looking! The major plot change is in Narrowhaven.. Just check it out! What i didnt like is the special effects when the green mist took the slaves in the ocean.. The special effects is not convincing for me… The Dragon is so cool! Especially when he met Aslan… The most touching part is when Aslan is speaking to them in the end part of the film.. But i think Georgie's acting is not that good on that last part.. I think i want to see her cry and sob more, Reep is also cool! Nice job Simon Pegg! 😀
exactly. wen we see VDT, we'll love it. Unfortunately, we'll probably find something else to argue about.
which is why the castmembers have said they can't read these boards-
Thank you Douglas Gresham! I still wish you could have fired AA's tush for adding something so ridiculous, but I guess what's done is done. I really hope that the filmmakers on VDT will do something between Caspian/Lilliandil to overpower and surpass a romance that doesn't exist in these fine narnia stories.
And the Serpent is so terrifying! Tilda is as good as ever! Love her! Overall im happy with the film.. One thing though.. I think the soundtrack of the film is not as good as what Harry Gregson did for the past 2 films… And also i didnt find the film to be that very 3D-ish… But its fine… But what i really appreciated was in the end credits, white Carrie's song is playing, we are shown the pictures of Pauline Baynes art drawings for the VDT book, it was so cool! Whew! What an experience! Im sorry if giving spoilers here … Lolz! IM LOVING NARNIA MORE AND MORE!!! ;-D
wow…FOX realy did do a good job
yeah, now if they could only learn the fine art of publicity……
Here we go again… *whinces from the inevitable to come*
That point aside… I rather liked this interview…Gresham seems like he'd be a cool person to meet 🙂
I'm really starting to respect Douglas Gresham. I always have, but the things he's been saying lately have been great! Suspian=nonesense, the "resident nuisance". Awesome!
Wow yesterday I saw the film and it's amaaaaaaaaazing! REALLY I think it's the best. All of them are very young yet, but the comparing with the first film…
Aww they are so cute!
I'm lucky that the Dawn Treader premiere was yesterday in Spain…
Mr. Gresham is very adept at saying what the fans want to hear… AFTER THE FACT. The kiss was nonsense? Oh, really? Did he ever mention that when he was SELLING the film to us? No.
“Take your friends, take your family, and even take your enemies!”
Years later, when he's trying to sell ANOTHER film, he's suddenly rushing to join the consensus that most people considered that moment "nonsense". OK.
I realize that even the slightest criticism of pretty much anyone (especially the Lord High Gresham) on this site is grounds for immediate scorn and derision, but I just cannot believe the free pass you people give Mr. Gresham over and over and over again. On the one hand, all I ever hear on Narniaweb is: "Mr. Gresham has no power to make significant changes. Stop blaming him for the films' faults." OK, that's a perfectly legitimate point that I would be willing to accept. EXCEPT THAT all I ever hear from Mr. Gresham is how he's The Guardian of The Legacy, constantly putting his foot down over "non-negotiable" points. Non-negotiable points, I might add, that still, in one form or another, tend to slip past his constant vigil, apparently.
This is not a personal attack against Mr. Gresham, although I'm sure it will be seen that way, and I'm certain the pitchforks are being sharpened, and the torches lit. The truth is, he can't have it both ways. Either he has a significant role in approving the content of these films, and he's failed consistently (not completely, but consistently) in that regard, or he has no significant role, and his reassurances mean nothing. I'm sure he's a decent man, and a committed Christian, and he loved his step-father very much. Those are all qualities I greatly admire. Unfortunately, none of that gives him legitimacy, in my opinion, to be an assuring voice representing these productions. Particularly when his candid opinions surface long after the box office has closed.
I don't know who you are, nor whether you were a NarniaWeb member in the months leading up to the release of any of these films. However we spent a lot of time and effort to let people here know what was coming up, what we knew about changes and interpretations, and so on, and ran every possible interview we could find or do.
If you weren't here, or chose not to read this material, I'm sorry.
I can also suggest to you that it is a bigger world than you thought, and that how movies are made is a more complex game than either of us could play.
Please take care how you describe Mr Gresham – keep it respectful please.
Hello, coracle. I think my comment was entirely respectful. Which, of course, is why it irritates you so much. It's not his personal character I'm addressing, merely the conflicting evidence of his efficacy. I believe that's allowed under the rules here? Oh, why, yes, it is! Your response (which I greatly appreciate and thoroughly respect, also as per Narniaweb rules) completely ignores the gist of my comment: Either he has a significant role, and he's failed at it, or he doesn't and, thus, his reassurances are meaningless.
Which do you think, my dear?
You know nothing about what you talking about. Douglas Gresham said he does his best to stick by the book, but sometimes he has to form a compromise with the writers.
Again, I ask you, if he found the kiss "nonsense", why didn't he state his opinion as such when assuring everyone how great the film was? Is that really such an awful question to ask? I don't see how anything I've asked is unreasonable, or inappropriate. Do you want interesting, open discussion of these issues, or is this a Douglas Gresham Fan Club? Again, I respect the man, I just think he's open to legitimate criticism, and I wonder why any attempt to do so is always met with such aggressive derision at Narniaweb, instead of addressing clearly stated, respectful points. Alas…
The aggressive derision is due to the fact that there's a select few people on this site who take any criticism of anything to do with the movies as personal attacks. They then proceed to personal insults and snide comments about the intelligence of the person expressing the concerns. Then it all gets topped off with a lament (usually badly spelled and in all caps) over the "complaining" the opposite side is doing, apparently willfully blind to the fact that their entire post/comment has been a complaint.
in fairness, I've seen similar attacks come from a similarly small proportion of die-hard book fans…
I usually just lurk here, but I thought that I would like to reply to Non-Negotiable's somewhat sarcastic and feisty comments ("Lord High Gresham" and all the defensive, combative comments about the posters here on Narnia Web, etc.).
"Again, I ask you, if he found the kiss 'nonsense', why didn’t he state his opinion as such when assuring everyone how great the film was?"
I'm going to assume that you have only read the post here on Narnia Web and not the article itself, because Gresham essentially answered this in the actual interview. He says that he thought the kiss was "nonsense" but that he also thought it was insignificant in the larger scheme of things. Thus, as a small, largely irrelevant point in his opinion, it wouldn't have affected his opinion of whether the films was "great" or not. He says that he saw the religious and moral elements of the book as the key things that he needed to defend, and little "silly" things like the kiss were not as important in his view. So, as he makes clear, there is no contradiction between his seeing the kiss as "nonsense" and the film as still great.
"Either he has a significant role, and he’s failed at it, or he doesn’t and, thus, his reassurances are meaningless."
This is an unrealistically black-and-white view of things. This just isn't how real life works. Gresham has some power and influence, but is not the be-all-and-end-all. Movies, by nature, are collaborative efforts. I would think that would be obvious.
Why have I got a feeling that you have never had a job where you really have to work with other people? In jobs like that, it is very rarely simply a case that everything or nothing you say goes. Typically, everybody working on the project expresses his or her opinion, and compromises are worked out. Gresham has staked his positions more on fighting to keep the moral points of the story–fine, but if he demands his way on those issues, he will have to give in on other points that the director and screenwriters and other producers want. This doesn't mean that he has no influence, it merely means that he's not the only one working on this film!
Gresham fights for some things from the books. He wins some, he compromises on others. Why is that hard to understand? After all, I have a strong feeling that these movies could have strayed much further than they already have. We should just be grateful that there is anyone fighting to preserve the key points of the stories, even if of necessity he can't successfully force his opinions on the cast and crew all the time.
You make it sound like you think Gresham is lying when he encourages people to see the films. Just because he disagrees with certain points doesn't mean that he secretly hates the films but is lying to get people to go see them. I hated some of the changes in the Lord of the Rings, but I still loved the films and recommended them to others. And no, this comment is not an attack on you, although as highly defensive as you sound in your posts ("I’m certain the pitchforks are being sharpened, and the torches lit," etc.), I'm sure you'll think it is.
I agree with you, people are too inconsistent, He either needs to be more firm, or stop jumping wagons when its convenient. Gresham may have some influence and he should use it better the film, not appease the audience.
he does what he can, but once you have relinquished a property to be made, you have very little control over it, and most authors have zero say, unless you are a living superstar author (JK Rowling) or produce +fund it privately yourself- the money providers have the most say, which isn't surprising- they are the ones taking the financial risk-
There are a lot of valid points in your post. I think that both are true: Gresham is the guardian of the books, but he also knows it would be unwise to constantly force the filmmakers to do what he wants to do.
I think sometimes Gresham simply makes it known that he doesn't like a particular change. Other times, he demands at least a compromise. And then on some, he puts his foot down and says "No!" It just depends on how significant the change is.
I think of Gresham's presence as a necessary evil. It would be nice if the filmmakers could honor the spirit of the book without needing Lewis' ghost standing over them with a stick… but those don't seem to be the filmmakers we have. These filmmakers want to do things like having Eustace earn back his redemption…and Gresham (and others) are needed to put them back on track.
Sometimes, when I picture all the filmmakers in a meeting room, I imagine the people who love the books arm-wrestling the people who just want to make the most commercially viable product possible. It's a constant struggle of the film wanting to go the commercial direction, and a few voices (Gresham being the biggest) having to try to hold them back. Doesn't sound like a very creative environment for an artist.
that's cause the moviemakers are mostly secularists, and they are disturbed to promote God. Look at the voice of Aslan, Liam Neeson, saying that Aslan isn't necessarily representing Jesus, he could well be representing Mohammed or Buddah! Get real, dude, CS Lewis wrote in actual letters he was alluding to Christ. Talk about revisionist history…
I see what you mean about Doug not getting every single thing he wants for the movies. but you don't have to rip out on Narniaweb. they just want to get people like me information about the newest narnia news wether it be for movies or books.
And I really think that Douglas does what he can. Some directors can be really hard. And I think Douglas does what he can.
get real, what's supposed to do, sink his new movie?
obviously, you are clueless about the politics and business of moviemaking…
What I'd like to see is at least one of these books… just one of them… to be adapted to the big screen COMPLETELY FREE of any changes, side plots, side themes, new, previously unheard of characters or anything else that was not in the book.
I would like to see someone come along… a TRUE follower of Clive Staples Lewis and these books in particular and put a production together that actually allows the transformation from page to screen EXACTLY the way he had them.
I don't want to see any additional side storylines, new characters, side plots (e.g. "The Kiss" or the Peter/Caspian … rivalry?).
I basically don't want to see ANYWHERE in said film where some kind of "compromise" was made so that the "general audience" can "enjoy it." I want to see a movie that the true fans would want to see.
I WILL say that it seemed (to me) that LWW was done VERY well when comparing it to Lewis' written pages. There were a few small things that were off, but they were REALLY small (Lucy telling Mr. Beaver that their house was "Lovely" whereas Susan does it in the book). That stuff, I looked past. However, with PC, it seemed to go much further off the deep end with some themes that weren't ever meant to be there and others that seemed to be left out (Peter to Caspian: "We're not here to take your throne, but to put you in it").
Aren't there enough true fans of C.S. Lewis out there that they would want to see this? Is it truly possible, or is it a pipe dream?
I kinda agree with you, but for screen purposes, some things need to be cut, just nothing needs to be added. Also I think that both LWW and PC strayed from the book in an unacceptable manner. They need to get a real fan of the book to come an make the rest, THEY SHOULD NOT MAKE THE LB IF THEY ARE GONNA CHANGE IT, THERE IS WAY TO MUCH IMPORTANT STUFF IN THERE TO BE MESSED UP.
The plot changes and the new characters in the movies were not what concerned me. The changes in character personalities were. And if someone made the movies totally like the books, they wouldn't do as well as the first two have done. There are certain things that need to be done to make a movie based off a book. And to say that you didn't like the addition of new characters is kind of ridiculous. if they didn't add in any characters in VDT, there would be… hmm… six main characters and maybe four minor characters. Not a very large cast at all. I think it would be boring to be watching those same characters all the time for almost two hours. It's not like Tavaros is going to ruin the movie.
I know exactly what you mean. In today's business market, however, you'd have to produce it for a cable tv channel in miniseries form- maybe like Hallmark channel or Lifetime or EWTN or Sky Angel network. PBS or BBC probably wouldn't even tpuch it today, too "religious" …
Go Dough, stand up for the faith your Father wrote into his books! Can't be earned, it is a free gift. The Kiss on the other hand, well…. now Caspian is a flirt, 'cause he's gotta marry the star girl whose name we never fined out.
I agree, the kiss between Caspian and Susan was complete nonsense.
I see people have a lot to say about this, but I'll try to keep my opinion short and straightforward. I'm very glad that Douglas is standing up for his faith and also staying true to the books and his father. Redemption is a gift from Jesus, it is NOT something we can earn in any way. As for the Caspian/Susan kiss, I agree with Douglas that it is nonsense but we don't need to "dig my heels in and scream and bite the carpet about.”
Well said, Michael
You took the words out of my mouth, well said!
Too true. >salute<
I understand what " Non-Negotiable Comment " was trying to say. He or she has a valid point. However even if Gresham felt this way during the process and promotion of PC it wouldn`t be wise to say so. Who would bad mouth or criticize the director and writers choices publicly during the very time of a movie`s marketing campaign?! If he wanted the film to do well and have the franchise continue he would keep his peace whether he approved of their choices or not. It is debatable as to how much input he really has.
I felt the kiss was unnecessary. However it doesn`t bother me as greatly as everyone else. That`s just me. I think filmmakers wanted to appeal to teen-aged girls by offering this romantic element. Since PC is so battle oriented they wanted to provide an outlet for female movie viewers to enjoy. From that stand point the choice makes sense. If they insisted on adding it then they could have done a better job developing it. Oh well..that`s either here nor there. Since the project is over and done with.
PC wasn`t all that bad. It`s funny and a bit sad how filmmakers and actors constantly remind us how VDT is liken unto LWW. It feels like their trying to make us forget PC ever happened. At least that`s the feeling I get while watching the interviews.
I get the feeling NON-Neg just enjoys "riding his high horse"…
I kind of have to wonder whether those who are criticizing Mr. Gresham actually read the interview. He makes it very clear that he saw the "silly" kiss as pretty insignificant and irrelevant in the larger scheme of the story. Yet, some people are making it sound as if he was very concerned about and absolutely hated the kiss, which gives the impression that he was being two-faced in the publicity for PC because he didn't complain about it then. Why should he have? If this was something that he thought destroyed the film, then of course he would have been two-faced if he still acted as if the film was great. However, we have no evidence that he was covering up his real attitude toward the film as a whole just because he didn't want to sink the series.
Beyond this, why do people doubt that he has influence on these films? He is one of the producers after all and spends a great deal of time on set. I have been pleasantly surprised by how many overtly Christian themes they have kept in these films. That is not typical of Hollywood, as I think most will agree. I think that is much better evidence that he does have influence than whether or not a "silly" kiss that he apparently only mildly opposed got in the film too.
Well, let's all just back up a few points…
When a book becomes a movie, I don't think I've ever seen or heard of one that was exactly like the book. Let's also keep in mind that these movies were BASED on the book, and for unwriten movie rules, a movie really would be incomplete without a romance and, when everybody sines (sorry for any spelling) on to do a 'based off movie', they are given the power to change whatever they want.
Over all I think that the movies were excellent, even with the plot changes simply because it works for the movie, not the books, but the movie
Yes!!!! But I would have screamed and bite the carpet!!!!!
I Liked Suspian! BAM! What Now!
I'm with you on that.
me too, alot!
I mean this in the sweetess way but, your crazy!
that's cause i hadn't read the book before i saw the movie, i had no idea caspian was actually originally only a pup!
And I disagree, in which we then all can live happily ever after. 😛
I disliked suspian! BAM! Now What?!
Finally! Somebody who agrees with me!!!!!
I do like the C/S romance, but the accent and the castle raid i could have gone without.
The whole Telmarine accent was almost annoying from some of the actors…
But i'm a sucker for romance (NOT Twilight ick) but fairytale stuff.
Although, i think the kiss was unnessecary…Romance yes, kiss then abandon the guy no.
And there should have been more Edmund. Cuz he was barely in it. that really dissappointed me, and by the looks of the dawn treader stuff skander is a really good actor who should have been given more lines in PC.
maybe they figured almost half the first movie revolved around him- plus he seemed pretty bland in PC, like they didnt know what to do with him now that he was reformed.
Ok, ok, everyone, let's not blow this out of proportion. I think we all agree that the Suspian romance was unnecessary, but that's just the way the movie turned out. It's been 2 years now, and overall, PC was a good movie anyway. I'm not trying to sound "grown up," like someone said, and I'm not trying to make this controversy more than it is. However, I think most of us are just devoted and concerned readers who simply want a good, true to the book movie. All we can do is hope that VDT is the best one yet, and move on.
I love how douglas gresham is still a good part of the making of the movies.
For me i didn't like the C/S romance, sure i see why the put it in but i don't like it. Plenty of my friends think it ruin the movie I don't know if your one of them but for me I loved the movie. The book Prince Caspian for me was boring. so the way they did the movie was good. Yes ben could have dropped the accent in Prince Caspian but i'm just glad he isn't doing it for VDT. and the castle raid was really cool for me. I don't know what other people think but I really Like Prince Caspian aside from the kiss
I can not believe that everyone is arguing over a fake kiss, that didn't affect anyone's real lives, and was about .5 seconds long. Really people, drop it. Do you all understand how riducuous you sound?
I actually liked the movie more than the book. I read the book twice and watched the movie about 20 times.
yeah, the book isn't much-
Ya, eh? I think that the PC book was actually the downer of the whole nan=rnia sceries and loved the movie better than the book because they made it a better movie than the book, if you understand…=)
I did like this movie better than the book; more action.
I don't believe the kiss was nonsense. Not at all. 🙂 I loved it, and I still love it. I very much preferred this movie to the book, and Suspian was just icing on the cake. 🙂
Still a matter of opinion not fact
Hurrah for Douglas Gresham! Way to keep the best line in the book in!
Wow, Two years later and were having an argument about it. O well, heres what I have to say.
I hated that at the end caspian was so corny! "I wish we had more time together!" In a spanish kind of accent, that was sooo cheesy. I didn't really see were they got to know each other. other than looks and smiles mostly.
Yes the kiss might be nonsense but… you have to admit it was kinda sweet.
But On the other hand. I bet they could of done it a bit differently.
I Agree that Caspian Should of had Awe and trying to actually believe that myths came true, and I wish that peter and caspian did get along and make some sort of friendship. but what do you expect there boys, and they have close personality's. But the movie is more interesting than the book I have to admit. PC is my least favorite out of the seven. So the Directors had to do something to make it more interesting.
Overall I Love The Movie and have watched it hundreds of times. 🙂
yeah, i wish there was more family bonding than infighting, but that's what today's marketplace is getting to be (reality tv, etc.)
I'm kind of surprised that narniaweb does not have the 10th tv spot or the new clips of the narnia soundtrack up on their website yet.
They have them on narniafans.com though
OK, where there's a kiss, there's romance, Mr. Gresham. Maybe nothing big, but if the kiss is meant, it is a romance.
A kiss doesn't necessarily make it a romance. It's a romance when two people do it at the same time with meaning. Susan kissed Caspian with no meaning because all we know is that they liked each because of their attractiveness. That's not love or romantic in the least.
It was just a kiss….good grief.
"Suspian"?
I Agree.
Just another comment: A lot of you were saying that AA should have been fired for adding the romance in…do you guys not remember that he actually did a good job with LWW? Aside from the romance (which let's face it, that was for casual fans), the night raid (which is mentioned in the book), and Peter and Caspian butting heads (personal opinion: I thought that it was more likely they would get in a power battle. Two young teenage boys just getting along when they both want to prove themselves? That was hard for Lewis to sell to me), I thought that AA did a good job getting the themes across to the audience.
So now, let's focus on the positive (that VotDT is out soon) and let the negative take a back seat.
i dont know what the big deal is!!!!!it was just a little kiss.in my opinion andrew did a terrific job with both movies and he deserves praise for it!!!!!!even thought the kiss was uncalled for,it was just a little mistake!!!!!
I know it wasn't bad.
It isnt a big deal, even though it does conflict w/ the book. It was thrown in just to "please" the moviegoers now. AA did have to learn a lesson–that if you dnt follow wat ppl expect, you lose money. From the clips ive seen of VDT, FOX did a way better job. And in my opinion, its ok if ther are some errors, this world is temorary and when we go to heaven, we can hear C.S.Lewis tell the Chronicles of Narnia to us forever. ;3
wow, that was awesome! well put, sir!
But….I like caspian and susan kiss…:-)
I know in the book Susan did have an obvious attraction to Caspian but there wasn't any kiss,but I think it was OK they added it
There's no indication to Susan having an obvious attraction to Caspian in the books. They were both thirteen. movie susan: 14 almost 15, movie caspian: 18. Pedofile alert! The only thing in the book was that Caspian was giving Susan her horn back and Susan tells him to keep it, without any dialogue or face details, etc. that was it.
oops! sorry must of read something with the movie.
don't read what I wrote I was wrong sorry.
All I'm going to say is that reading these comments made me want to rip my eyes out. I agree with Mr. Gresham – there are more important things to be worried about than a little movie kiss! Please just think about what C.S. Lewis would be saying right now – probably to stop worrying about a fictional romance and worry more about the important things in life. I am SO grateful that they even made these movies! And I am excited for the movie no matter how the director changes it. Just remember – it's not going to be the book copied onto film. It's just not! Sorry! Accept it as a different form of art and expression and I think that it will be much more enjoyable for all.
Sorry, don't believe in global warming here Gresham…
I love the comment Mr. Gresham said about redemption can't be earned. It is a free gift given to those who accept Jesus Christ as the Savior of their life.
Agreed >salute<
We're only human. dont let this divide us. God is a god of unity.
Here is what you people are all forgeting. Caspian had read about Susan and so she was like a hero to him, and she was supposed to be gorgeous. He is supposed to be 14 but the movie made him a little bit older. So he probably had a small crush on her. And Susan was starting to like boys. I'm sure any girl on here would chose Prince Caspian over the geeky boy. People are allowed to have crushes in real life so Caspian and Susan should too. Caspian got over it when she left and so did she. So it wasn't like they were staying and getting married. They just liked each other and shared a small kiss. NO BIG DEAL PEOPLE!!! Now he gets married so forget Susan she is no longer in picture. Don't get me wrong I didn't mind kiss and i think Susan is prettier then L. but the movie has moved on and so have I. I wouldn't worry about it. It did mess up the movie a little bit it's not like we can change it.
OMG Isn't this the full scene of Eustace Stealing Rations??!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iuetrhn2y0
Enough already! I loved, loved, loved Prince Caspian because (in my opinion) it improved on the book. C.S. Lewis wrote PC as a children's book and did so excellently; however, Adamson and company did an excellent job of translating it into the "reel" world with a real world ethos. At the end Aslan says that Peter and Susan had learned what they could from Narnia and the time had come for them to live out those learned lessons in the real world but the book; as Lewis wrote it, however, the book never provides us with much evidence as to what precisely those lessons were. The character arcs for the Pevensies and Caspian were well done and much needed, especially Peter's grappling with being a "king" in the real world and his subsequent drive to go it in his own strength. And what was so wrong about Susan and Caspian's kiss? The kiss and the assumed disillusionment Susan may have later experienced (who in the real world can measure up to Caspian?)fits well with all the specualtion regarding her less-than-sterling future post-PC.
I hate Suspian with a passion! Glad Douglas said this. it makes my night. Caspian's too nice and sweet for Susan, I bet he would of saw that if he didn't concentrate on only her looks. People can't have true romances like that. Susan is too mean, materialistic, and boring, she tries to hard and is a fake. Lilliandil is better because she doesn't try hard, she's real and she's natural. GO LISPIAN!!!!!!!
Amen!!!!!!!!!!!!
But I still like Susan.
Amen!Amen!Amen!Amen!Amen!Amen!Amen!Amen!Amen!Amen!Amen!Amen!Amen!Amen!Amen!Amen!Amen!Amen!Amen!Amen!Amen!Amen!Amen!Amen!Amen!Amen!Amen!Amen!Amen!Amen!Amen!Amen!Amen!Amen!Amen!Amen!Amen!Amen!Amen!
Well I get what you are saying but if you remember in PC nobody was exactly a darling little angel either. Prince Caspian wasn't really sweet. He had tons of fights and anger. I wouldn't really call Suspian fake. And Susan was just confused and just trying to get on in school. In my opinion it was just a goodbye kiss saying that maybe if she stayed things would have been different. People who saw that movie took it to a completely different level.
Yes, justice is served. 🙂 So nice to hear Gresham say the kiss was nonsense. I think the worst changes to the PC movie was the change in the characters. They were either modernized or changed so drastically that it made the movie unenjoyable. So much fighting and arguing.
One thing I'm looking forward to in the VDT is the characters seem to be more accurate and it looks more enjoyable of a movie.
slightly off topic :)…but in PC's final scene I couldn't get over the fact that Caspian was wearing a dress!
ha ha, i thought the same thing, dang that outfit was dorky looking! ( course you want absurd outfits, dresses on guys, check out the BBC dawn treader version – woof, guys in puffy miniskirts and tights! )
It's called a tunic. And yes I know it's a style for girls today but back then it was in for men! 😉
Hahaha, rofl, this comment had me in tears. How did Ben Barnes get talked into wearing a silk dress? Hahahaha
I know! I laughed at that so hard! LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You people are such losers. Why are there responses that are essays long about a movie that came out years ago?
Especially hsawaknoW, what kind of a lame name is that?
acutally hsawaknoW isn't my only name on Narnia Web. I have about 45 names (some of them very clever) and spend the greater part of my day posting. You may not know this but about 95% of the comments of this topics are acutally me. I even have fake arguments with myself just to entertain people like you!
Seriously, geat a life and stop making fun of us Narnians. Alsan Foever
.
Sure, Ultimate Loser, you're right, because anything that is a couple years old is totally irrelevant today. People should only talk about what is current, because the past has no value at all.
What about truly old movies like Citizen Kane and Gone with the Wind. I suppose they wouldn't even deserve a sentence worth of discussion in your eyes?