Episode 61: Battle? What battle?
Running time: 34:49
After a few weeks of discussion, glumPuddle and Rilian hash out the potential ramifications of Michael Apted’s quote including the thematic elements he mentioned and (of course) the “battle” he mentioned. Bonus: And Rilian does another voice impression!
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I love listening to you guys and I totally agree with most everything you are saying.
My huge concern about the movie is that they change the story too much and then it will not be the story that we all know and love. I will be very upset if they do not end the movie with Reepicheep going over the waterfall. If they add too much action in the movie, similar to what they did with PC.
Also, I hope that when they combine the islands, that they do this correctly and to where it makes sense to the fans…
One final note…they had better not have Eustace as the dragon, going up against the sea serpent. He has to break Caspian's second best sword….it is something that shows up again in the Silver Chair!
That was a fascinating "lot of nothing"! I should listen to these podcasts more often 🙂
You may have alluded to it, but it occurred to me that maybe they discover the dragon-Eustace when he's flying over the ship. At that point, maybe he sees the sea serpent from the air before the people on the ship do, and they see a threatening-looking dragon, while Eustace sees a real threat and goes after it. They may not mention the sea serpent in the clip because they haven't noticed it yet.
As for the "unfathomable fate", they're measuring fathoms at the end of the book, and Reepicheep going up the waterfall is not necessarily the way a first-time reader would expect him to find Aslan's country. Maybe it's Reepicheep's unfathomable fate (in a good sense) that nobody expected him to go up a waterfall in his coracle. Maybe it's also unfathomable to Caspian's way of thinking that he'll have to part with Lucy, Edmund and Eustace, and he may never see them again. Caspian could probably have never fathomed before the voyage that he would marry the daughter of a star. It could be stuff like that.
Or maybe it's something about how Rhoop tells about his unfathomable fate, suffering in his own nightmares for years on end? That's somewhat near the end of the book.
I can see them combining the Island of the Dragon and Deathwater Island…
Also, the Dufflepuds threaten to do battle in the book. Maybe the movie makes it more than a threat, like the Prince Caspian movie makes the hag's threat of calling up the White Witch a bit more than a threat. I hope not.
It could also be more of a psychological battle. It could be argued that Lucy goes through a battle with her darker nature while she's going through the spell book…
I also hope they don't diverge too much from the book (as they did with Prince Caspian, imho). I'm very concerned that if they change too much, it could kill the franchise because the fans will be disappointed, and I really want to see all seven books made into movies.
But I prefer to be optimistic…I feel better after listening to this podcast. 🙂
Another thing…if I remember right, when they were filming Return of the Jedi, they claimed to be filming "Blue Harvest" with the tagline "Horror beyond imagination"… Maybe they're just throwing out a bunch of red herrings to get talk going.
Hmm… "Horror beyond imagination"… sounds a lot like "Unfathomable fate"…
GUYS – movies are BORING without some action! Battles are awesome! Sea Serpent vs. Dragon battle? BRING IT ON! Woo hoo! By the way, I love the Narnia books (for many years now), I love the movies, and I love NarniaWeb.
I'm not sure it is a safe assumption that the dragon at the end of the film is Eustace.
va a ser el mayo 7 del 2010 la ploduccion de estreno ese dia o va a ser otro dia bye
People who feel that way can go see Transformers. That’s the kind of movie where you can turn your brain off for 2 hours and watch at mindless action. Narnia is far deeper than that. This movie is simply NOT for that audience.
A boring movie fails to engage the audience in the characters and story. A good movie will use action as a proper means to these ends, not as the ends themselves.
So you think that at some point, a random dragon attacks a sea serpent? It could be, but at this point, it sounds very odd. So right now, until further evidence turns up, it is a safe assumption that the dragon is Eustace.
I wasn't too worried about this dragon/sea serpent battle, I was just glad about the idea of focusing on the characters. I agree with GlumPuddle, if they had Eustace's transformation nearer the end, it would have more of an effect if we really appreciated how bratty he was to start with.
Hmm . . but I do also think that you're right about the sea serpent battle, the whole point was not fighting and winning.
I don't know, I don't think I'd be too bothered about a battle as long as it stayed in theme with the book – if that's possible!
I agree with the reply of the fans above but I recommend that Susan and Peter must have to come and play role in this movie. The fans will love that.
I'm a little worried about the idea of Eustace keeping dragon powers throughout the movie. That would effectively crush the whole movie for me, because Eustace´s rebirth from his true dragonish self is one of THE most important ideas of the whole book–that and the faith of Reepicheep. Bungle those two things and the movie is sacrilege.
Sorry, wrote the above before listening carefully 🙂 Still, I'm not hunky-dory about this battle idea. It would be about as bad as the whole castle raid in PC. We need to protest while we have a chance…
Have you all seen Michael Apted's movie "Amazing Grace"? I think this director has proved that he can make a good movie when given good material. I think we can definitely be expecting different from him. I for one am really looking forward to seeing VoDT.
A dragon/sea serpent battle might be interesting to watch but is not even hinted at in the book. Therefore, in my opinion, it should not be in the movie. Look how production took the minor raids in PC and blew them up to an epic climax in the movie. I really liked Eustace's transformation- it is one of the highlights of the book. Eustace staying as a dragon beyond the island. would effectively alienate any Narnian fans- even if they're not as fanatical as Narniawebbers. I also liked the battle against the sea serpent and the strategy that is used. I can just imagine Reep trying to push the serpent over by himself- it will ruin the movie if he is moved to a bystander (as well as the Pevensies and Caspian). I hope that they are separate.
Rilian, that voice impression was absolutely priceless. Thanks for doing it; I about died laughing. 😀
Here's my theory about the "unfathomable" fate. And I admit, it is pretty far-fetched.
We already know (or have assumed) that Rhince and his daughter are seeking a wife/mother. What if..(and a very big if) King Caspian was setting off to find out why his people are being taken as slaves? That would explain why Rhince & daughter are coming aboard; and it might explain why Lu and Caspian are fighting in Govenor Gumpas's city. There might just be a massive slave trade going on.
If this were true, I can see why Apted would say there is a lot of character development.
As for Eustace not be transformed until the near end because Apted wants it all to lead up to the moment where Eustace will come swooping in to save them all….I think it is absolutely possible. That doesn't mean I like it, though. I am his transformation will be rushed if they leave it 'till the end. But I'm not entirely against it. Like you said, glumPuddle, if gives the audience to hate him for the most part, then began to love and understand him the next.
Glad you liked the voice impression! One of my favorites.
Narnia is NOT supposed to be all mindless action. But you know the line: "must make the movie appeal to other people besides those who have read the books." Even though I am sick of that line and think the book fans should be the ones being catered to, I can see the point….eegh.
It's kind of a tightrope act, if I can call it that. And since there are so many Narnia-LOTR comparisons, let me try this one. I felt that The Return of the King took forever to end. But it was bittersweet in the same way as the ending of VODT when the Pevensies leave for the last time and Reepicheep enters Aslan's country.
VDT is not the same sort of action book as PC is. I hope to see the ending of VDT sort of mirror the flavor as Return of the King did. After all, people liked ROTK!
So in conclusion, although we don't want VDT to be boring, there can be a lull in which the magic of the scene takes over, if you follow me. There will be enough action earlier in the movie, I'm certain. 😉
I think I heard at some point that they confirmed that the dragon in question was Eustace…but I could be wrong.
Battles; I don't want no stinking battles. 🙂 One of the reasons I loved this book was the absence of battles. Caspian and company used their minds instead of brawn. Evil can be overcome without a pitched battle.
I enjoyed your podcast. It is nice to hear that people have the same reservations about the movie that I do. I really enjoyed the comments too. Good sanity check.
You're assuming that the Dragon is attacking the Sea Serpent, but that has not been confirmed yet. All Apted said was that there was a fight at the end with a dragon and a sea serpent. He didn't say they were fighting each other.
Gresham himself confirmed that the dragon "attacking" the Dawn Treader in spy videos is Eustace. But that may or may not have anything to do with what Apted mentions here.
That's true and a real possibility, yet I don't find it plausible. It would seem even more odd if the sea serpent and dragon were on the same side, as it were.
I am very skeptical about how this is coming around. I'm very encouraged by Apted saying that it is not supposed to be an action filled epic, but a character driven film. But I am also quite worried with how much action he will allow to slip past.
In all honesty, I do not wish to see Eusatce as a dragon saving everyone from the sea serpent. A battle with a sea serpant, I think, would be perfectly fine. A battle with possibly the dragon Eustace; also fine. I do not wish to see the two become combined, and especially not at the end. If they do the two together, I think that tries to jam in too much at the same time, and I imagine it would be very choppy and cut down.
Like GlumPuddle, I would love to see the Eustace dragon transformation a little later in the film.
But I do not wish to see him saving everyone. I think that takes too much away from who Eustace in the book really is.
BTW Rilian, what other impressions do you do? I loved this one!
"I think that takes too much away from who Eustace really is." Um, I think him saving them all would PROVE who he really is; I fully believe that would be the real, good Eustace saving them! Who do you really think Eustace is?
El dÃa del estreno vá a ser en 10 de deciembre.
Rilian, which impression did you do? I can't listen to it for some reason. My brother can do a hillarious Mark Johnson impression. It's perfect!
So if thay pushed Eustace's transformation to later in the film I think that can a vary good thing or a VARY VARY BAD thing if thay put it to clos to the end of the film
I do a few. Jimmy Stewart, Lionel Barrymore, Liam Neeson, Christian Bale, Orlando Bloom, Gregory Peck, Christopher Lee, Sean Connery, John Rhys Davies, Dominic Monaghan, Hugo Weaving, and some others. I'm sure there's others I could do that I haven't discovered yet.